Bit of an "oops"

[TheMG]

I have a lock similar to this one I was playing around with:



It is a double ball bearing lock with a removable lock cylinder. The lock cylinder removes by depressing a spring-loaded pin located under the shackle.

Out of sheer stupidity, I closed the shackle and then re-inserted the cylinder with the shackle closed.

Now I can not open the lock anymore. The moving part of the cylinder does not engage with the cam shaft that allows the balls to retract and the lock to open. In other words when you turn the key nothing happens.

Not being able to open the shackle, I now can't remove the cylinder to fix this stupid mistake.

Right now what I've done is I've filled the lock up with water and placed it in the freezer. I'm hoping that the ice inside the lock will mechanically couple the cylinder with the shaft allowing me to open the lock. It's in the freezer as I type this.

Anyone have any other ideas that does not involve damaging the padlock?

[raimundo]

how did you reinsert the cylinder with the shackle closed? the drill breaker cylinder cover must not be on or what you meant to say was that you reinserted the cylinder and placed the drill breaker which is also the washer that holds the screw that you must also have replaced,

perhaps you put it back together without the cylinder properly engaged to the part that controls the ball locking dogs,

we could use some photos of the bottom of the lock, that may show some hint of what went wrong.

did you have any leftover parts?

Im confused.

[TheMG]

This lock does not have a drill breaker cover. All that holds the cylinder in place is just a little spring loaded pin which protrudes into the shackle hole. You push that pin in and out comes the entire cylinder. There is no screw or washer.

Anyways after a while thinking of different methods to get the lock open again, I realized this one isn't going to be salvageable, or at least not the cylinder part of it.

I drilled the lock so I could get a pair of pliers in there and release the shackle.

After some investigation I realized what went wrong. The cam shaft is spring loaded to allow it to turn into the locked position when you close the shackle. Well, as it turns out, it is the plug that prevents the shaft from turning too far. So what happened when I closed the shackle without the cylinder in place is that the spring unwound itself completely putting the shaft in a position in which it was impossible for the cylinder to engage it when turned.

IOW there was pretty much no way I would have got that lock open by any non-destructive means.

Not a big loss anyways, that lock was not very good design, despite its robust external appearance. All the pins were standard pins (easily picked) and as I found out also very easy to drill the lock. Literally it took less than a minute to chew through it with a drill, allowing the removal of the plug, and from there releasing the shackle with a pair of pliers.

If you're wondering, this padlock had no brand name on it. Just the word "Taiwan".

[ww85]

Shimming not an option?

[MBI]

Shimming not an option?

The original poster said it's a double ball bearing lock. Those are not shimmable.

[ww85]

Interesting, I hadn't realized that. Any chance you could explain why for the benefit of newbies like myself?

I know that loiding in general isn't meant for this forum, but since shim guides are fair game I figure explaining how a lock defends against them should be okay...

[Squelchtone]

Interesting, I hadn't realized that. Any chance you could explain why for the benefit of newbies like myself?

I know that loiding in general isn't meant for this forum, but since shim guides are fair game I figure explaining how a lock defends against them should be okay...

buy one of these locks and it will become very very clear.

In a nutshell, unlike 2 spring loaded tabs that have somewhere to go in a normal cheap padlock, the ball bearings are pushed out by the shape of the locking cam that sits on top of the cylinder. Trying to shim doesnt do anything, the ball bearings will not move at all when the cam is pushing against them, when the cylinder turns, the cam turns and 2 indents on the cam allow the ball bearings to roll closer to the cams center, which gives you enough room to pull the shackle out.



Squelchtone

[Evan]

@squelchtone:

You beat me by a few minutes, but I was looking for a thread I saw on here before and it took me a while to find it sifting through all the search results about the double ball picks...

On: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:37 am
In the tread: shimming big masterlocks? (double ball bearings)

Shimming (usually) doesn't work with padlocks with ball bearing locks. Shimming pushes back the locking mechanism in "regular" padlocks. In these padlocks, there is a turning element which presses the ball bearings into the shackle. To open the lock, ths element has to be turned or retracted. Otherwise, the ball bearings just press against the element. As you (usually) can't reach this element with your shims, there is no way to shim the lock. Also, in most locks this element is not spring-loaded, but directly connected to the cylinder. So without turning the cylinder, you can't unlock the shackle.

So with what squelchtone said and showed in the pic and what was said in the old thread from deep on the dusty shelves of the forum, that is your reason why...

~~ Evan

[Raymond]

Going back to the original question, this problem might have been solved with a spring wire with a small bend at the tip. It would be inserted through the keyway and past out the back of the keyway. It could then interact with the spring loaded detent and rotate it until the cylinder reset in place. Th key would then work again. This is similar to the American lock bypass methods.

[raimundo]

Raymond,

that would likely work but it would not be able to completely retension the spring, though it would be working to turn the untensioned (can this be called a dog)

so the 'dog' could be retensioned after removing the cylinder again.

tell me if I'm right, I haven't dealt with this type of lock internal for years and I dont remember ever having that problem.

To the OP

the mistakes are how we learn.

Sometimes.

[Raymond]

What may happen is that the 'dog' may be turned only a little bit or that it has spun completely to the position where there is no tension on the spring. But since it is locked, it may only be turned a little bit - just enough that the back of the plug cannot fit into the connection. If the plug did not have a rotational limiting pin it could be turned back until it snaps into position on the dog and works properly. Worth a try until it was drilled out.