Key that goes through the locking mechanism when incorrect

[Knowthebird]

Im not sure of the details of this yet. It came to mind when thinking of how a moving bolt could be an advantage. The goal with this idea here is to prevent impressioning, and to prevent learning how much progress is being made on picking a lock based off its rotation.

Ghetto sketch of it
http://img850.imageshack.us/f/dscn0443.jpg/

You take core, thread the outside of it, and put some pins in it to interact with the key. Once they interact, and turn a certain amount, they become one larger key. This larger key then spins through the actual lock, which would be another threaded core. If the key is the correct one, then it will have put the pins in the first core to a position where they can attach to that locking core. Once they attach they allow the pins in that core to come down, so that it can also spin freely. Like a key in a pintumbler, the locking core is now attached to the key core, and they can spin down the lock and flip a bolt. If the key is the incorrect one, then the key core will not attach to the locking core, and will continue to spin down the lock until it hits the back.
Thats the general idea.

Details I was tossing around are, using a "driver" pin at the front of the key, or what would be the back of the first cylander, to engage some kind of disc or pin blocking system, and also engaging a spring, to speed up the process of all the spinning. For pins, an idea is using serrated pins and thin strips of metal like clips to slide on them and hold them in place after they spin past a certain point in the lock. I imagine the spring could be hooked up to something like a dual action switch blade, so that a small turn before it goes through the lock, or after words, would send it spinning through. The threads would not have to be as many as a screw i dont imagine, i bet something could be come up with big grooves, maybe ball bearings. I dont like using pins, I think wafers would be cooler, but not sure how u could set them or lock them in place before the plug started moving. Oh, and I imagine tension or a spring moving would need to be already placed on locking core to help it get moving, another reason pin tumblers might not work well.

[vov35]

I feel like this could be done very well with a sidebar to throw the bolt.... hmmm...

[globallockytoo]

Not sure if many members here would know or remember the Rivers Lock mechanism, produced in Australia (all hand made) in the early 20th century.

The cylinder (core) actually had 2 shear lines within. The core (where the key goes in) was always free spinning. You inserted the key at 12 o'clock and when the first shear line was created, the cylinder actually "locked up" allowing the second "outer" sleeve cylinder to activate. This effectively seized the outer handle making the outer handle the catalyst of the 4-way bot mechanism.

It's hard to describe and I dont have an exploded pic or anything, but the system worked. It definitely wasnt pick resistant or impression resistant but it was an effective solution in the 1900's.

[Knowthebird]

I think I found the one you are talking about. Is it this one? http://www.google.com/patents?id=qGtDAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false

This is very close to what Im talking about. The lock in the patent uses a handle to apply tension to the upper cores, so to pick this lock u could lift all the pins a little so they will catch the inner core, then apply tension with the handle, and then individualy pick the pins.

The lock im describing would not use a handle, the tension to open the lock would be provided by the lock itself. You would also not be able to see the upper core, or actuall locking core at all. And ideally, the lock would use a disc blocking system kind of thing so the inner core could not be held at the postion it meets the locking core while the pins are picked. I sort of rushed that part in my drawing, just throwing some serrated pins in the bottom core, and then a strip of metal with a catch on it that could lock them from moving up are down when the catch was cought when it started moving down the lock.

The big part is, you shouldnt be able to see the upper core, or choose the amount of tension that can go on it, and after that, other locking features can/should be added.

[Knowthebird]

They really hand made those? Thats pretty cool. Never really thought about all the work that must have gone on to make locks in the past.

[Knowthebird]

Im sorry to keep posting on this. Im trying to keep my mind occupied, but at the moment I feel like im spamming my own posts.

So, the whole idea behind the threads and spinning and dbs is to make stages in the lock that are not noticed by the user, cant be manipulated by the user, and prevent feedback. So why not make a lock like a clock.

The clock could activate different stages like it would for a wake up alarm. Im imagining something you could put a key into, it would set some pieces (pins discs wafers gears, etc.) to a certain position. Maybe like the ability to rekey a lock on the new kwiksets smart key. One would be a driving piece, to start the clock. The clock would take those pieces or use them to set pieces in it to certain positions. Say second one the clock moves its pieces to reflect the cuts in the key, second two it locks them in place, second three it tries to open the lock with something similar to the lock globallockytoo mentioned, or like i did, (just something that would allow the clock to keep ticking regardless if the key was correct or not). Second 4 it releases the pieces.

You would not allow the user to see any of this ticking on the outside, but on the interior of the door, you could have a display that showed the amount of time since the lock was last opened, and the amount of time since an incorrect key (or picking) was attempted. A little black/red dot could be displayed on the front of the lock where they put the key in. If a wrong key is attempted the dot goes from black to red, starts a timer the user could see on the inside of the lock. If they used the wrong key they could put the correct one in and reset the timer on the inside of the door. If someone else did, they could see the red dot, if someone needed to check out the locks or investigate anything this would notify the person before they used their key/messed up evidence, but if they didnt care much they could just go inside and look at the time and guess at what may have happened. For more security the person could even set it up so, the lock can only be used or attempted to be opened every so many seconds/minutes, or possibly never open if a wrong key was used.