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removing ic cores without the master key

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

removing ic cores without the master key

Postby shortlineflyer » 16 Mar 2011 14:46

Hey everyone,

I was wondering how the mechanism that keeps ic cores held in work. could someone give me some info about this. I understand that it involves a special key but what does that mean. I know one key opens the lock and the other removes the lock.
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Re: removing ic cores without the master key

Postby chriswingate » 16 Mar 2011 15:10

There are two shear lines inside most I-Cores such as BEST locks. One key opens the Operating shear line, which means when the pins are lifted to a certain height, that is the shear line that is activated. The Control key turns the lock at the Control shear line which operates the little piece of the lock that sticks out from the core and holds it in place inside the cylinder. Other people may be able to give a more indepth response than that, but that is how I see it.

Other locks such as Schlage I-Cores have a added sleeve on the back with a small pin, which when the control key is inserted, it raises the small pin in the back, causing the little blocking mechanism to move over, allowing the core to be removed. I've attached some pictures to show.

Image
This is a Medeco IC with the control key inserted but the blocking mechanism protruding.
Image
This is the same, but with the control key turned so the blocking mechanism is retracted.
Image
Schlage Primus I-Core showing the silver looking sleeve in the back attached to the blocking mechanism.
Image
Same lock showing the pin in the rear that operates the blocking mechanism.

I didn't have a control key for the Schlage, but the control key and the operating key will have the same bitting, just the control key will be slightly longer so it can activate that control pin in the rear of the lock.

Image
The top key is the Control Key, bottom key is the Operating Key
The Medeco keys have two different bittings, one to operate the the lock, and the other to operate the control shear line. The same principal applies to BEST style I-Cores.
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Re: removing ic cores without the master key

Postby shortlineflyer » 16 Mar 2011 15:29

which mechanism do you think is more secure and why? I am just trying to gather as much information as i possibly can. Do you have any pictures of those locks disassembled.
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Re: removing ic cores without the master key

Postby chriswingate » 16 Mar 2011 15:35

I don't have any dissassembled pictures right now, I just took those real quick because they were handy. As far as security goes, the locking mechanisms are both good, as far as force, its metal on metal, a good amount on both locks. As far as picking goes, I have yet to pick a Schlage to Control, the mechanism means that you have to pick the pins to shear so they all stay up, and then pick the control pin in the back, but if the plug is rotated too much, you wont be able to push that control pin into the small hole in the sleeve. Just makes it a pain to do, I don't personally know of anyone who has picked it open like that, I'm sure there are members here that can shed more light on that than me. Picking the BEST and Medeco to control is more simple because you have to get it to one of two shear lines. Obviously being able to see the control key bitting helps you know how much you should be raising the pins to get it to either operating or control.

I'll see about taking some pictures of the Medeco and the Schlage disassembled so you can see how the pieces work together later on tonight, or tomorrow. Hope this helps for now.
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Re: removing ic cores without the master key

Postby Squelchtone » 16 Mar 2011 17:09

shortlineflyer wrote:which mechanism do you think is more secure and why? I am just trying to gather as much information as i possibly can. Do you have any pictures of those locks disassembled.


Ask the right questions and we'll be more than helpful, but don't play "20 questions"; just tell us what you're trying to accomplish.

are you looking to buy a lock for your business? are you trying to pick a lock on a door somewhere? are you an engineering student writing a paper?

We can give you a much better answer much faster if we know where you're going with this. Like for instance why does it matter which one is more secure when it comes to IC cores? Secure to picking? to drilling? to prying out with a screwdriver?

Thanks for clarifying,
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Re: removing ic cores without the master key

Postby shortlineflyer » 16 Mar 2011 17:23

sorry i don't mean to. i wanna learn to pick them to control what would be the easiest one to start with.
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Re: removing ic cores without the master key

Postby Squelchtone » 16 Mar 2011 17:28

shortlineflyer wrote:sorry i don't mean to. i wanna learn to pick them to control what would be the easiest one to start with.


An old Arrow or Falcon SFIC from ebay. not built as well as a BEST and easy enough keyways.

Light tension, and use a hook to pick pin by pin or half diamond or riffle rake to rake open. Sometimes easier to pick in one direction or another, prepare for the plug to get stuck upsidedown, and sometimes for a master wafer to fall out of the keyway since there is no key to keep it in place.

Thats about it.
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Re: removing ic cores without the master key

Postby vov35 » 16 Mar 2011 17:29

The BiLock isn't the first bump proof pin tumbler because it isn't a pin tumbler.
And it's called a shear line, not a "sheerline".
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Re: removing ic cores without the master key

Postby Evan » 16 Mar 2011 18:10

shortlineflyer wrote:Hey everyone,

I was wondering how the mechanism that keeps ic cores held in work. could someone give me some info about this. I understand that it involves a special key but what does that mean. I know one key opens the lock and the other removes the lock.


@shortlineflyer:

Expanding on the excellent answer provided by chriswingate, how it works all depends on the manufacturer and age/style of the specific IC cylinder and housing you are considering:

Method #1: With some IC's the core retention device is activated indirectly by means of a special longer keyblank which interacts with some mechanism at the back of the core where operating keys can not reach it during normal use to allow for removal of the core from the housing... So any valid operating key cut onto the control blank will function as a control key -- this is usually the Top Master Key when considering a cylinder with more than one key that operates... So the only functional difference is the special control blank...

-- This method applies to LFIC's made by: Yale, Lockwood (U.S.), Schlage and some very early old original Medeco...

Method #2: With Best/Falcon/Arrow/etc. SFIC's there is an additional complete sleeve around the cylinder plug called the control sleeve... It operates the control lug which is an integral part of the sleeve at a totally separate and unique shearline which is distinct from the operating keys which are keyed into the plug shearline... The control keys in this type of arrangement are cut on the same blanks as the operating keys, using a unique bitting which is reserved for the control key function...

-- This method only applies to SFIC's...

Method #3: With other LFIC's the core retention activated directly by means of a special partial sleeve which is installed in certain pin chambers of the IC cylinder... The location of these special chambers and the number of pin chambers included as part of the partial sleeve varies by manufacturer and age of the IC core in question... The control key is required to have several identical cuts to the Top Master Key in a master keying system OR the operating key in a single keyed core -- often being cut differently from the operating key(s) in only 1 or 2 chambers to accomplish the control function...

In many older style IC's there was a dedicated pattern of interrelationship which must be followed in the cuts in the control sleeve chambers and control/master/change keys had to be different by certain depths...

With newer style Medeco IC's the control function is accomplished by cutting the control key to a specified depth depending on what depth of the change key is in that same chamber, adding a master pin only if a master key also should operate...

-- This method applies to special cylinders(old)/LFIC's made by: Corbin (old), Russwin (old), Corbin-Russwin, Medeco and Sargent...

Did you have any other questions about how these cylinders operate besides how to pick them to the control function to remove them from their housing without possessing the control key for the core?

The only cores which can reliably be picked to the control function with a special tension tool are SFIC's...

~~ Evan
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Re: removing ic cores without the master key

Postby Evan » 16 Mar 2011 18:27

chriswingate wrote:As far as picking goes, I have yet to pick a Schlage to Control, the mechanism means that you have to pick the pins to shear so they all stay up, and then pick the control pin in the back, but if the plug is rotated too much, you wont be able to push that control pin into the small hole in the sleeve. Just makes it a pain to do, I don't personally know of anyone who has picked it open like that, I'm sure there are members here that can shed more light on that than me.


Picking LFIC's using design method #1 in my reply above is easier if you make a tool for the keyway using a keyblank which is thinned down in the same manner you would to make a "tool" to help deal with the check pin in an Schlage Everest cylinder or the finger pin bittings in a Schlage Primus cylinder... You would leave the control pin area of the control blank intact and remove pretty much everything else but the bottom of the blade on the keyblank leaving a portion of the bow as a handle...

In the response made by FarmerFreak on Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:21 pm in this thread: Control key on a Schlage Everest IC you can see pictures of what I am describing and get an idea of what I mean... Another post with another picture specifically addressing the Everest check pin issue was made by Ezer on Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:49 pm in this thread: Schlage Everest tools

~~ Evan
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Re: removing ic cores without the master key

Postby chriswingate » 16 Mar 2011 18:31

Cool thanks for the expanded explanation Evan, I completely forgot about the little difference of the control sleeves with LFIC and SFIC. Also thanks for the tip about getting the control pin elevated while still being able to pick. Very cool, I'm going to have to give that a try.
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