How to change the mottura cylinder in this door?

[femurat]

I'd like to change the main cylinder of this door (the upper one). The new owner will change the lock anyway, so why letting a random locksmith to trash away that beauty? It'll be wiser to change it with a more common and cheap lock before selling the flat.



It's a nice mottura champion (a dimple lock with a magnetic element) and it'll be a very good addition to my dimple collection. Is it possible to remove it without ruining the door? I don't see the usual screw that holds in place euro-profile locks.

Thanks for any input

[illusion]

There is the large metallic plate on the edge of the door, through which the locking bolts slide out. This plate seems to be removable and it's possible that the retaining crew-bolt is behind this. Should be a simple bolt/screw, about the same hight as the bottom of the cylinder.

Worth a quick look at least.

[Rickthepick]

all euros are fitted with the same screw you just have to take the faceplate off first.

[femurat]

Ok thanks, it looked strange to me that the lower cylinder had the usual screw exposed and the upper one had nothing. So the screw should be accessible from the side? The strange thing is that on mottura website there's a picture showing what I guess is my lock (the one on the right). Here you can see a hole close to the lock, are you sure the screw isn't accessible from this hole only? I'm not so willing to remove the door panel...

Next time I go there I'll try to remove the screws in the corners of the plate and see what happens.

Cheers

[femurat]

I took off the plate and there's no screw to hold the cylinder. It looks like I was not lucky I have to try something else.

Cheers

[Rickthepick]

unusual, perhaps its from the rear of the lockcase, you could remove it all but possible risk of dropping parts inside the door and making a mess

[Doctor Hexagon]

I really hope you can figure out how to get that out; that's a really beautiful lock. You could try to find some installation instructions and/or diagrams to give you some clues on how to get it out of the door. If the door is a solid core door, and it ought to be at least as strong as a solid wood door to warrant putting that security level of a lock on, you may not have to worry about dropping pieces in to the door. Could it be that the external hardware, such as the thumb turn and lever handle are the only things still holding it in to the door? The images I've seen of those I've seen suggest it's essentially all one piece.

[mh]

Looks like a lock case from their series 85, shown here: http://www.mottura.it/en/locks-armoured-doors
There's a pdf http://www.mottura.it/sites/default/fil ... uropeo(ita).pdf that shows e.g. the 85.588...N on p.16 (446 in their full catalogue).

Obviously, they make two different versions of how the cylinder can be mounted, and they show that in their catalogue. One is the standard "long screw from the side" method, and another one apparently requires that you remove the escutcheon plate on the inside, and then there's something on the lower right corner of the cylinder that can be clicked or screwed into place.

Maybe you can show a closeup picture of that piece for us?

Thanks
mh

[EmCee]

Fitting instructions or breakdown diagrams are always good, but without them you have to try to think a bit more widely. If there's no obvious screw to remove the cylinder then you have to think, well they must have got it in there somehow, so there must be a way to remove it (of course, there could always be cases where the locking mechanism is factory installed as part of the door fabrication, but very unlikely).

So if the lock faceplate does not conceal a screw, the next thing I'd do is remove the handles/escrutcheons. In this case, mh's find suggests that this lock is one with a fixing under the plate on the inside. If not, is that a hole top and bottom of the lockcase? Looks like the lockcase itself sits inside a metal keep - perhaps you have to insert a tool into the gap to reach the fixing that holds the cylinder.

all euros are fitted with the same screw

As an aside, I've never come across one, but isn't there one that is fixed with a grub screw? A Yale maybe?

Cheers...

[mh]

As an aside, I've never come across one, but isn't there one that is fixed with a grub screw? A Yale maybe?

BKS once made them, maybe 10-20 years ago.

[femurat]

Hey Rick, I don't feel like trying to remove the whole lock. I'm just an hobbyist and I've never done it before.

Thanks for the links mh. I saw and linked that page in my previous post, but then Mottura changed its website structure, so my links are broken now.
I saw that little slot on the manual. It's not clearly showed nor explained. Now I have to remove the inner plate and look for it. I'll post some pictures.

Hi Doctor Hexagon, this door is armoured, made of many layers of steel and covered with wooden panels. There is an empty area inside where I'm sure every screw is willing to drop as soon as I unscrew it. I saw a couple of bars bolted to the lock, one goes up and the other goes down. As said I don't want to disassemble the whole locking mechanism, I'm too worried by the possibility of being unable to reassemble it properly. If something wrong happens, calling a locksmith to force open this door costs 500 euro. Then I'll have to install a new door, which will be 1500 euro...

Hey EmCee, I'm sure there's a way to pull that nice cylinder out without ruining the door or loosing some small parts inside. I don't think it was built in and not changeable. Usually only double bitted lever locks are soldered to the door structure. To change them a locksmith has to remove the door panel, cut off the old lock with an angle grinder, measure accurately and solder the new lock in place. I agree with you, this is not my situation.

Thanks to all for the help and encouragement, I'll let you know what happens next time I go there.

Cheers

[EmCee]

Ahh...I thought you wanted to remove the whole thing as the locking mechanism looks pretty cool too. I thought it was a solid hardwood door, but even so, as you say, it's very unlikely the lockset was factory installed before the door was pressed together. If there's internal rods going top and bottom, then the gaps top and bottom of the lockcase might be for accessing these to disconnect them (although as you say, I wouldn't try it as they can be a pain to disconnect and even more of a pain to reconnect).

However, even if you wanted to remove the whole lockcase, you wouldn't be able to do so without removing the handles/spindle and the cylinder first. I hope the pdf mh found is right and that you'll see the way to remove the cylinder once you remove the door handles.

Cheers....

[femurat]

I gave up This morning I asked a professional locksmith, who services mottura, to go and change the cylinder. Tomorrow I'll discover if he has to cut the door in half or if there's a trick to change these

Cheers

[femurat]

So I had to pay 70 euro black (without the receipt) to the locksmith assistant to came and change the lock

I'm a bit disappointed since I asked them advice on how to remove the cylinder before calling them out, and they told me there should have been a screw to undo. Then I showed them the pictures and told that I had already tried to unscrew everything but the cylinder didn't came out. They insisted on the screw story, and added to gently turn the key while pulling.
When the guy arrived, immediately undid just partially a screw on the side of the door, close to the cylinder. He pressed the screw in and a spring loaded mechanism let the cylinder free.
Now I'm wondering why they didn't told me to do this in the first place, since seeing the pictures should have been enough to recognise the mechanism of a lock they service. I could have bought just the cylinder from them, but evidently they wanted the call fee also.

Live and learn...

[mh]

Looks like a lock case from their series 85, shown here: http://www.mottura.it/en/locks-armoured-doors
There's a pdf http://www.mottura.it/sites/default/fil ... uropeo(ita).pdf that shows e.g. the 85.588...N on p.16 (446 in their full catalogue).

... another one apparently requires that you remove the escutcheon plate on the inside, and then there's something on the lower right corner of the cylinder that can be clicked or screwed into place.

So the secret cylinder removal procedure for these is:
Unscrew a screw that's located near to the cylinder only partially, then push that screw in, to release the cylinder.
Might be useful to know sometime in the future when I come across such lock in a holiday apartment...

Cheers
mh