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by thomas1 » 31 Mar 2011 12:43
I work in facilities for 2 business parks. We have inherited a situation where we have numerous Schlage locks that need to be re-keyed. O The problem we have is that for many ofthese locks we do not have the keys to be able to remove the lever to access the core. The company we use for re-keying tells me there is no way to be the cores out without destroying them. I find that hard to believe, can anyone point me in the right direction of getting these cores removed without involving a drill bit?
TIA
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by Squelchtone » 31 Mar 2011 13:02
thomas1 wrote:I work in facilities for 2 business parks. We have inherited a situation where we have numerous Schlage locks that need to be re-keyed. O The problem we have is that for many ofthese locks we do not have the keys to be able to remove the lever to access the core. The company we use for re-keying tells me there is no way to be the cores out without destroying them. I find that hard to believe, can anyone point me in the right direction of getting these cores removed without involving a drill bit?
TIA
Take a key, at least 1 key, either a C123 or C145 or whatever you use, and grind all the key cuts down until the only thing left is the key blade where it has that milled out section on the right side. leave the bow/head of the key, and while cutting the key down, leave some of the key head so you can use it for turning purposes. What this will do is set the check pin, and then you just use a hook pick or half diamond or an S or L rake and pick each lock so that the hole in the lever aligns with the spring loaded release tab inside the lock cylinder in order to press it with a pin and remove the lever. here's a pic of the key http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/evere ... e-key.htmlhere's more info on the locks so you can visualize whats going on inside. http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/everest/Hope this helps your project, Squelchtone

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by keysman » 31 Mar 2011 14:00
thomas1 wrote:, can anyone point me in the right direction of getting these cores removed without involving a drill bit?
TIA
Perhaps you should find a new locksmith. The schlage "A" and "D" series are a little different but NOT impossible to remove the core when no working key is available. Go to the Schlage (IR) site and download the correct manual for the locks you have ( ie. AL or DL) you will find directions there including pictures of the procedure. If you are having a luckyday you may only have to take apart 1. You can then make a key to fit the rest .
Everyone who eats potatoes eventually dies. Therefore potatoes are poisonous.
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by thomas1 » 31 Mar 2011 14:14
keysman wrote:thomas1 wrote:, can anyone point me in the right direction of getting these cores removed without involving a drill bit?
TIA
Perhaps you should find a new locksmith. The schlage "A" and "D" series are a little different but NOT impossible to remove the core when no working key is available. Go to the Schlage (IR) site and download the correct manual for the locks you have ( ie. AL or DL) you will find directions there including pictures of the procedure. If you are having a luckyday you may only have to take apart 1. You can then make a key to fit the rest .
I went to the IR site and all I see are the install manual and product cut sheets. Am I blind or in the wrong area? I'll keep looking but, if you had a link handy that would be great. They are ND series locks, if that matters. Thanks
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by thomas1 » 31 Mar 2011 14:17
thomas1 wrote:keysman wrote:thomas1 wrote:, can anyone point me in the right direction of getting these cores removed without involving a drill bit?
TIA
Perhaps you should find a new locksmith. The schlage "A" and "D" series are a little different but NOT impossible to remove the core when no working key is available. Go to the Schlage (IR) site and download the correct manual for the locks you have ( ie. AL or DL) you will find directions there including pictures of the procedure. If you are having a luckyday you may only have to take apart 1. You can then make a key to fit the rest .
I went to the IR site and all I see are the install manual and product cut sheets. Am I blind or in the wrong area? I'll keep looking but, if you had a link handy that would be great. They are ND series locks, if that matters. Thanks
Non IC also.
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by Evan » 31 Mar 2011 14:53
squelchtone wrote:thomas1 wrote:I work in facilities for 2 business parks. We have inherited a situation where we have numerous Schlage locks that need to be re-keyed. O The problem we have is that for many ofthese locks we do not have the keys to be able to remove the lever to access the core. The company we use for re-keying tells me there is no way to be the cores out without destroying them. I find that hard to believe, can anyone point me in the right direction of getting these cores removed without involving a drill bit?
TIA
Take a key, at least 1 key, either a C123 or C145 or whatever you use, and grind all the key cuts down until the only thing left is the key blade where it has that milled out section on the right side. leave the bow/head of the key, and while cutting the key down, leave some of the key head so you can use it for turning purposes. What this will do is set the check pin, and then you just use a hook pick or half diamond or an S or L rake and pick each lock so that the hole in the lever aligns with the spring loaded release tab inside the lock cylinder in order to press it with a pin and remove the lever. here's a pic of the key http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/evere ... e-key.htmlhere's more info on the locks so you can visualize whats going on inside. http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/everest/Hope this helps your project, Squelchtone
+1 to Squelchtone's reply... @thomas1: Or you could buy the special Everest Tension Tool made by Peterson... << External Link to Peterson Tension Tools: Scroll half way down page to see Tension Tool "ET-2" >>It is amazing that this concept came up in a different thread just two weeks ago... removing ic cores without the master keyI linked to postings and pictures in threads on LP101 which describe the exact widget that Squelchtone described... Those threads for quick reference here are: In the response made by Control key on a Schlage Everest IC where FarmerFreak posted pictures of what Squelchtone described in his reply here... Another post with another picture specifically addressing the Everest check pin issue was made by Ezer in this thread from a long time ago: Schlage Everest tools If your vendor for "re-keying" services doesn't understand how the Everest check pin works and how to deal with bypassing it to pick the lock, then find a new company to provide that service, they are most likely confusing Everest with Primus which are two different levels of Schlage locks... One of the bigger questions I have is how the facilities department ever ended up without having access to either a set of keys kept in a lockbox in the facilities office to a locked door on the property OR a bitting chart if they didn't want to be responsible for keeping the keys secure so replacement keys could be cut by code by a locksmith in the event all copies of a given key were somehow lost or destroyed for whatever reason... How is facilities supposed to access the space secured by the doors which you don't have keys to during some sort of emergency or inspection ? Definitely there are issues to resolve there... Good luck... ~~ Evan
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by thomas1 » 31 Mar 2011 15:23
Evan wrote:One of the bigger questions I have is how the facilities department ever ended up without having access to either a set of keys kept in a lockbox in the facilities office to a locked door on the property OR a bitting chart if they didn't want to be responsible for keeping the keys secure so replacement keys could be cut by code by a locksmith in the event all copies of a given key were somehow lost or destroyed for whatever reason... How is facilities supposed to access the space secured by the doors which you don't have keys to during some sort of emergency or inspection ? Definitely there are issues to resolve there...
Good luck...
~~ Evan
We definitely have issues we are working to resolve. But, to try to answer your question the answer is it depends on the tenant. We have standard IC locks for most of the building entry doors and common area access (restrooms, elec rooms, sprinkled, janitor's etal.) How we got into this situation though is that during we tenant buildouts we have spec'd only that the suite entries must be compatible with our IC keying system. Once in their own suite tenants were free to key as the pleased, only ND series was spec'd. That being the case non-IC locks are cheaper so they got used to the tune of maybe 400 locks. With tenats moving in and out, renovations, tenants locks changing or moving, subleases and a dozen different other things facilities doesn't always have the keys. Nor should we, depending on how the lease is written, we may or may not have responsibilities for that tenant. We also have quite a few tenants that are only acronyms and no one is allowed to know who they are or what they do. They are acccess by appointment only unless it's the fire department, in which case they have access to the Knox box. I hope that at least partially answers your questions and thanks for the links.
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by Evan » 31 Mar 2011 16:46
thomas1 wrote:We definitely have issues we are working to resolve. But, to try to answer your question the answer is it depends on the tenant. We have standard IC locks for most of the building entry doors and common area access (restrooms, elec rooms, sprinkled, janitor's etal.) How we got into this situation though is that during we tenant buildouts we have spec'd only that the suite entries must be compatible with our IC keying system. Once in their own suite tenants were free to key as the pleased, only ND series was spec'd. That being the case non-IC locks are cheaper so they got used to the tune of maybe 400 locks. With tenats moving in and out, renovations, tenants locks changing or moving, subleases and a dozen different other things facilities doesn't always have the keys. Nor should we, depending on how the lease is written, we may or may not have responsibilities for that tenant. We also have quite a few tenants that are only acronyms and no one is allowed to know who they are or what they do. They are acccess by appointment only unless it's the fire department, in which case they have access to the Knox box. I hope that at least partially answers your questions and thanks for the links.
Never seen a commercial lease yet that said the tenant could surrender the premises to the landlord without handing over the keys, all of them... The locks once installed become property of the landlord as they are permanent fixtures... This is why the lease documentation and tenant construction guidelines specified a specific type and/or style of lock set that must be installed... Sounds like you have a bad leasing administrator if they are not on top of the process of how spaces are being tendered back to the landlord at the end of the occupancy... Most of the fire departments who have Knox boxes rely on the landlord of the building to ensure the keys locked in the box are current, not the tenants... The fire department would also deal with the landlord for all inspection related issues as the landlord is the one ultimately on the hook for ensuring that the premises they are making money renting to the tenants are in a safe and code-compliant condition... Worse comes to worse the fire department just breaks the door open -- you should just pay whatever it costs to re-key the locks whether that means drilling and replacing the cylinders or whatever else is required to gain access, as the tenant failed to properly surrender the space to the landlord's representative and under the terms of most leases I have seen they can be billed for that expense or have it deducted from their damage deposit... You could even send them a bill for rent as they have not given you keys to areas within their occupancy which are still secured by the locks the tenants installed... Since the landlord has no ability to inspect the space to verify that it has indeed been vacated entirely and officially accept it back from the tenant to end the occupancy, it could legally be considered still rented and occupied by that tenant who failed to surrender control to the landlord by supplying all keys to the landlord's representative... Facilities is always responsible for the overall condition of the building as well as preventing one tenant from causing damage to the adjoining occupancies... In fact the level of control on some properties is such that all building permit applications are submitted to the landlord for processing with the city/town building department only AFTER the designs have been approved by the landlord's architect/engineer long before the plans are ever submitted for approval by the city/town... If this is office space and not retail, landlords usually maintain a set of emergency keys for issues that come up which could cause tens of thousands of dollars of damage like water leaks, backed up drain lines or some issue with a central plant HVAC system which could leak and contaminate quite a bit of space while you wait that hour for a tenant "keyholder" to arrive if the emergency contact information is up to date... It seldom ever is... Now these generalizations might not apply to your complex/buildings but they do apply many places out there as there are always common utilities and services in tenant spaces that the tenants aren't responsible for maintaining unless the lease was for a pad-site built to suit by the leasee where the lease specifies that the land tenant is responsible for maintaining all of the infrastructure they have built until the end of their occupancy when it reverts to become the landlord's property to deal with... It sounds to me as if your property management company should consider requiring all tenants to maintain a keybox located at a mutually agreed upon spot within the tenant's space with a copy of every key needed to access all of the rooms within their leased spaces contained inside it secured by the landlord's lock maintained as a repository in much the same way the fire department keeps the Knox boxes... ~~ Evan
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by thomas1 » 31 Mar 2011 17:26
FWIW I stumbled across a much easier and faster method of removing the cores. Should I tell right away or would you guys like to guess? It may be very obvious to the experts here, I neglected to include in my first post that these locks did not need to be unlocked, I just didn't have the keys required to turn the cores for lever removal.
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by Poff » 4 Apr 2011 11:57
thomas1 wrote:FWIW I stumbled across a much easier and faster method of removing the cores. Should I tell right away or would you guys like to guess? It may be very obvious to the experts here, I neglected to include in my first post that these locks did not need to be unlocked, I just didn't have the keys required to turn the cores for lever removal.
If the lock is disassembled and you just can't remove the core you can break off the tail piece with a pair of needle nose pliers which allows you to push in the handle retainer without the key. It's mildly destructive but easy enough to replace the tailpiece. I do not know if the method works on all of the Schlage levers but it worked on the ones that I installed at my business. I got mine from a contractor buddy who did a commercial remodel and they did not have keys. Once the core is out you can shim it open.
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by thomas1 » 4 Apr 2011 12:28
Poff wrote:thomas1 wrote:FWIW I stumbled across a much easier and faster method of removing the cores. Should I tell right away or would you guys like to guess? It may be very obvious to the experts here, I neglected to include in my first post that these locks did not need to be unlocked, I just didn't have the keys required to turn the cores for lever removal.
If the lock is disassembled and you just can't remove the core you can break off the tail piece with a pair of needle nose pliers which allows you to push in the handle retainer without the key. It's mildly destructive but easy enough to replace the tailpiece. I do not know if the method works on all of the Schlage levers but it worked on the ones that I installed at my business. I got mine from a contractor buddy who did a commercial remodel and they did not have keys. Once the core is out you can shim it open.
That's basically what I ended up doing. But I was able to depress the tail piece retainer and didn't have to break anything. Thanks to everyone for their help.
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by raimundo » 6 Apr 2011 9:35
squelch is right and so is evan, nice to read your solution too. you can lift the check pin in one of these if your old lady will let you have a bobby pin that you can cut to 45 degrees on the tip of the straight leg also.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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by jpb06080 » 7 Apr 2011 0:52
Picking these locks is possible but difficult. If they are levers, find a locksmith who can dissassemble the lock from the back to make a key to fit. What is the model? A series Im assuming. Its not that hard to do.
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