Ethical Question

[ckc123]

So the question is.. if you would pick the lock and why (this situation happened to me today)

Background:

In our area there are public forests which everyone has a right to use. Some of these forests have access roads which are not maintained by the city. (Dirt roads)

There is one such forest that has an access road which is 2km long to get into the forest and there are some private properties on both sides of the road (close to the entrance) before you get to the forest, and the local properties have driveways (to get into the back of thier properties)..

One of these owners has put a private gate across this non-maintained road, and pad locked it, prevent lawfull access (by vehicle) to the forest. The gate is close to the start of the road. (2 km walk to get to the "parking lot" for the forest)

The township which owns the forest has been contacted and has stated that the owner(s) can put a gate, but CANNOT LOCK it (legal right of way), and they are aware of this owner continously locking the gate against thier demands. When asked if they lock can be removed they would not give an answer either way.

(I didn't have my picks with me so I didnt' do anything, and walked the 2 km to get into the forest)..

Question: if this was you and you came across this situation.. would you pick the lock and leave the gate open for legal access for everyone??

[dls]

The next time the gate is locked call the local fire officer and ask him does he have a key and if not would he be able to carry out his duties efficiently if you where in trouble or if the forest was on fire.

[Evan]

The next time the gate is locked call the local fire officer and ask him does he have a key and if not would he be able to carry out his duties efficiently if you where in trouble or if the forest was on fire.

They sure would...

Gate vs. the many tons of a fire pumper = gate opened...

Sounds more like the issue here is one that needs to be addressed by the township passing an ordinance prohibiting installing gates on public ways even if such means of access are not maintained by the township... It is just too easy to lock a gate where one has been installed...

~~ Evan

[smhatter]

No. It isn't worth potential trouble for you. Just keep after the city (really bug them if you have to) and have them handle it.

[riggers]

No. It isn't worth potential trouble for you. Just keep after the city (really bug them if you have to) and have them handle it.

agree

[Varjeal]

Agreed as well, and while bugging the city, I would bring up the issue of emergency access to the property as well. Emergency services being stopped or slowed by unauthorized locking of the gate can be potentially dangerous and life threatening. Whoever is locking that gate needs to be confronted by someone in authority. (ie. not you)

[Terces]

I'd say it isn't worth the trouble as well, but I'm not sure if it'd be illegal. If it's blocking lawful access and it's on public property then I'd think it'd be okay. For example, what if you parked your bike on a street and somebody locked your bike to a post? There is a difference between public property and your property but I think in essence it'd be the same. Furthermore I can't think of any law you'd be breaking. Tampering with property maybe, but certainly not breaking and entering. Just a thought.

[MacGyver101]

As I was reading this, I was half-expecting your question to be "would you pick the lock and replace it with a different one, to teach the jerk a lesson?" (The answer to that question is also "don't do it".)

Anyhow, I'd side with the recommendations of dealing with this by dealing with the township... even if you would be legally in the right to remove that lock yourself. My bigger worry is how would the guy respond if he found you messing with the gate, even if you're not breaking any laws in doing so.

My guess is the guy who's installed the gate is doing so because he feels he's protecting his family (e.g., his kid almost got hit by someone speeding down the road), or he feels he's protecting his home (e.g., his house on this out-of-the-way side-road has been broken into a few times). If that's the case, then he's not going to respond rationally if he finds you messing with a lock that he's convinced himself is protecting his family/home... even though it sounds like he's in the wrong here.

Personally, I don't think I'd risk provoking a confrontation with someone who's so upset that he's started installing gates across public roads... he may decide for himself that you're the one who's been breaking into his house, endangering his kids, orchestrating local alien abductions, or whatever his issue is.

[Legion303]

As I was reading this, I was half-expecting your question to be "would you pick the lock and replace it with a different one, to teach the jerk a lesson?" :lol: (The answer to that question is also "don't do it".)

That sounds remarkably close to something I would do. Not removing the old lock, which isn't mine, but adding a few of my own to make sure it's extra secure. Assuming there's room to do so.

-steve

[nothumbs]

Another approach, assuming you've got your picks. Commonly seen when, for example, more than one agency need access thru a locked gate is a 'chain' of locks, the opening of any single lock allows access. You might consider picking the original lock, add your lock in a sequence, then lock both. This preserves the access control installed by the first party, but adds access (controlled) for you as well. This might be an approach to take until the authorities address the situation.

http://skipmeamadeus.blogspot.com/2007/10/clowns-on-parade-giving-administaff.html for one example and http://www.123rf.com/photo_694955_three-locks-on-an-old-rusty-chain-protecting-a-gate.html for another.

[Evan]

Another approach, assuming you've got your picks. Commonly seen when, for example, more than one agency need access thru a locked gate is a 'chain' of locks, the opening of any single lock allows access. You might consider picking the original lock, add your lock in a sequence, then lock both. This preserves the access control installed by the first party, but adds access (controlled) for you as well. This might be an approach to take until the authorities address the situation..

@nothumbs:

I haven't seen a gate that needed to be opened by many agencies which used different keys before -- usually only two locks are required one for public safety/government users (sometimes utility companies qualify in this category also) and one for the private/corporate owner of the property which the gate is securing access to...

All the public safety users would just have copies of the same key... Same for the owner's lock... Any hierarchies of access where different keys were needed to issue to different specific users would be accomplished by using padlocks which can be master keyed...

Using a "chain of locks" usually results in one or more of those locks getting cut when someone in a hurry re-locks the gate and by mistake doesn't secure their padlock to the one on the very end of the chain... A fool-proof locking arrangement where two classes of user groups can be accommodated is a gate which is secured by a steel pin with a hole drilled across the pin in each end where a padlock for each of the two groups is secured... Using that arrangement no group could ever accidentally lock the other out as each of the two locks can unlock the gate -- in a "chain of locks" arrangement if keyholders to more than one lock are present, it is possible for other locks to be lost and left out when the gate is re-secured...

~~ Evan

[femurat]

And here's another master keyed gate example.

Cheers