Can someone explain? (different lock types mortise, rim)

[Squelchtone]

Hi guys!

I have been picking locks for a while now and been trying different types of padlocks and some cylinders and been coming across some expressions and type of locks that I can not make out and would be glad if someone could explain what they mean.

Lockout (Padlock with this text on it)
Mortise cylinder
Rim cylinder
Euro profile
Kwikset
Brinks

Thanks in advance...

[chriswingate]

Kwikset and Brinks are both brand names of lock companies.
The "Lockout" one probably is too.

A quick Google search of those other locks styles: Mortise, Rim, Euro Profile, will produce many pictures of them.

[Ophidian]

Ok, not sure about the "locked out" though since a simple google search reveals masterlocks with the label "Locked out".
What is the difference between Rim cylinder and Mortice cylinder?
Have seen Brinks being used in reference to keyways, and about keyways how can you tell what keyway a lock got? Does it say anywhere or is it the shape of the keyway?

[mcsteve]

Lockout generally refers to a padlock designed for "locking out" a machine or electrical panel to ensure it cannot be powered up while someone is working on it. It is an OSHA mandated safety practice. Locks for lockout generally aren't special in any way, except they may be red in color, and some have non-conductive bodies.

[Evan]

I have been picking locks for a while now and been trying different types of padlocks and some cylinders and been coming across some expressions and type of locks that I can not make out and would be glad if someone could explain what they mean.

@Ophidian:

Here are the definitions for your listed terms:

1. Lockout (Padlock with this text on it):
   
   -- "lockout" used in the context of a padlock is for Lockout-Tagout applications where worker safety is required near "hazardous energy" by OSHA where equipment to be serviced must be locked in a de-energized state prior to any repairs or work being completed...
   
   -- it could also refer to a "lockout cylinder" where by a variety of methods the operation of normal keys for that cylinder is prevented on a temporary reversible basis by means of using a special key or tool on the cylinder to change it between "normal mode" and "lockout mode"...
   
2. Mortise cylinder:
   
   -- a threaded cylinder which is commonly used in mortise lock sets of North American design which are installed in pockets milled in the edge of the door, it operates the lock works in the mortise lock case by means of a flat cam attached to the back of the plug...
   
3. Rim cylinder:
   
   -- a cylinder typically used with surface applied locks and attached with a back plate and machine screws, it has a tailpiece to actuate the lock mechanism...
   
4. Euro profile:
   
   -- a cylinder used in locks of European design in which the one-piece cylinder can project from both sides of the door, can be keyed on both sides or just on the exterior with a thumb-turn on the interior... Both sides of the cylinder share control of the centrally located cam...
   
5. Kwikset:
   
   -- an OEM lock manufacturer... A division of Black and Decker... Newer lock offerings include user-rekeyable "Smart Key" locksets...
   
6. Brinks:
   
   -- a 3rd party lock producer who mainly provides knock-offs of other OEM's lock products mainly padlocks and grade 3 residential hardware...
   
   -- could also refer to a "brink function cylinder" in which a special relationship between the two keys which operate the lock allow for a key that can rotate both ways and a key which can only rotate in one direction but not the other by means of a machined pocket in the plug for one chamber of the lock... It is possible to have a brink function cylinder which has three keys: one which rotates in both directions, one which rotates clockwise only and one which rotates counter-clockwise only, however that requires two pin chambers with pockets and greatly reduces the potential size of any master key system as those chambers with pockets for the brink function can not be used to progress change keys... This was a common function in lock cylinders used for some correctional facility applications before Mogul cylinders with master rings and what is called "limited control key" (LCK)...

Hope those definitions help, if you have any further questions about them feel free to ask...

~~ Evan

[Ophidian]

Thank you Evan for the extensive and good explanation of my question. Now I think I got the hang of it.

I have been picking locks for a while now and been trying different types of padlocks and some cylinders and been coming across some expressions and type of locks that I can not make out and would be glad if someone could explain what they mean.

@Ophidian:

Here are the definitions for your listed terms:

1. Lockout (Padlock with this text on it):
   
   -- "lockout" used in the context of a padlock is for Lockout-Tagout applications where worker safety is required near "hazardous energy" by OSHA where equipment to be serviced must be locked in a de-energized state prior to any repairs or work being completed...
   
   -- it could also refer to a "lockout cylinder" where by a variety of methods the operation of normal keys for that cylinder is prevented on a temporary reversible basis by means of using a special key or tool on the cylinder to change it between "normal mode" and "lockout mode"...
   
2. Mortise cylinder:
   
   -- a threaded cylinder which is commonly used in mortise lock sets of North American design which are installed in pockets milled in the edge of the door, it operates the lock works in the mortise lock case by means of a flat cam attached to the back of the plug...
   
3. Rim cylinder:
   
   -- a cylinder typically used with surface applied locks and attached with a back plate and machine screws, it has a tailpiece to actuate the lock mechanism...
   
4. Euro profile:
   
   -- a cylinder used in locks of European design in which the one-piece cylinder can project from both sides of the door, can be keyed on both sides or just on the exterior with a thumb-turn on the interior... Both sides of the cylinder share control of the centrally located cam...
   
5. Kwikset:
   
   -- an OEM lock manufacturer... A division of Black and Decker... Newer lock offerings include user-rekeyable "Smart Key" locksets...
   
6. Brinks:
   
   -- a 3rd party lock producer who mainly provides knock-offs of other OEM's lock products mainly padlocks and grade 3 residential hardware...
   
   -- could also refer to a "brink function cylinder" in which a special relationship between the two keys which operate the lock allow for a key that can rotate both ways and a key which can only rotate in one direction but not the other by means of a machined pocket in the plug for one chamber of the lock... It is possible to have a brink function cylinder which has three keys: one which rotates in both directions, one which rotates clockwise only and one which rotates counter-clockwise only, however that requires two pin chambers with pockets and greatly reduces the potential size of any master key system as those chambers with pockets for the brink function can not be used to progress change keys... This was a common function in lock cylinders used for some correctional facility applications before Mogul cylinders with master rings and what is called "limited control key" (LCK)...

Hope those definitions help, if you have any further questions about them feel free to ask...

~~ Evan

[EmCee]

The definition of 'mortise cylinder' and 'rim cylinder' is a bit difficult in my view. Strictly speaking a mortise lock is one where the operating mechanism is installed within the door - in the 'mortise', which is the cut out/space in the door; while a rim lock is one that is mounted on the surface of the door. However, a 'rim cylinder' actually fits into a large hole in the door and the bulk of the locking mechanism (cylinder) is inside the door.

It might be helpful to move away from that definition and consider a looser but more accurate description - 'mortise cylinder' refers to a lock where the main locking element (bolt/latch) is located in a mortice within the door; 'rim cylinder' refers to a cylinder that operates a latch/deadbolt case that is mounted on the surface (rim) on the inside of the door.

Euro profile refers to the shape of the cylinder (like a pear, usually installed upside down in Europe and right way up in the US). It doesn't have to be a 'double euro' with a one-piece cylinder that projects from both sides of the door, it can also be a single euro with a keyway only on one side.

Cheers...

[Evan]

The definition of 'mortise cylinder' and 'rim cylinder' is a bit difficult in my view. Strictly speaking a mortise lock is one where the operating mechanism is installed within the door - in the 'mortise', which is the cut out/space in the door; while a rim lock is one that is mounted on the surface of the door. However, a 'rim cylinder' actually fits into a large hole in the door and the bulk of the locking mechanism (cylinder) is inside the door.

It might be helpful to move away from that definition and consider a looser but more accurate description - 'mortise cylinder' refers to a lock where the main locking element (bolt/latch) is located in a mortice within the door; 'rim cylinder' refers to a cylinder that operates a latch/deadbolt case that is mounted on the surface (rim) on the inside of the door.

Euro profile refers to the shape of the cylinder (like a pear, usually installed upside down in Europe and right way up in the US). It doesn't have to be a 'double euro' with a one-piece cylinder that projects from both sides of the door, it can also be a single euro with a keyway only on one side.

Cheers...

@EmCee:

I agree that you bring up valid points...

But a mortise style lock could be operated by a Euro profile/Oval cylinder which is not round and not threaded... It can get confusing when you try to accommodate all the various styles of locks and cylinders that are involved -- my definitions are North American-centric...

And yes, a rim cylinder does indeed get installed in a hole through the door, but a small hole for the cylinder is not a mortise and a rim style lock is installed on the surface of the door...

I was careful to define Euro cylinder as I have not seen too many of them in actual use, I very carefully said it "can" project from both sides of the door... I did not know enough about all of the specific variants of Euro cylinders to be able to define it in the same way that someone in Europe would be able to, my definition was more of pointing out how much unlike North American cylinders they are...

~~ Evan

[Ophidian]

I am a prequent viewer of youtube videos of picking different locks and they often name the lock but also what style of keyway, how do I identefy what keyway certan locks have? Is there some site I can learn more about different keyways?

[bobhdus]

You can do a search with any key blank manufacturer and they will each tell you different things about their keys. I frequent ILCO's and Jet's website but my local distributer also has different pages as a link on his site. The Key Blank pages will usually show you the side view and the end view of the key as well as any other ID info. You would hold your key up the page and be able to at least narrow it down to the specific key blank. The end view is as if your putting the key into a lock on the screen. That is how you would try to match it up. The rim cylinder is usually used on doors that have panic bars. On the opposite side of the lock you would in most cases but not always, have an escutchion (external decorative forged or stamped face plate that handle and lock is mounted to). Usually the lock will be held into place on the inside by a small housing with two screws and the locks tail piece would engage with the panic bar.

[mh]

Euro profile refers to the shape of the cylinder (like a pear, usually installed upside down in Europe and right way up in the US).

This shape was invented 1924 in Germany by Sylvester Woehrle (see e.g. http://www.secupedia.info/wiki/Hahnprofil ), and the words "upside down" should be used carefully in this context - of course with the pins at the bottom they are installed "right way up"

Cheers
mh

[Ophidian]

You can do a search with any key blank manufacturer and they will each tell you different things about their keys. I frequent ILCO's and Jet's website but my local distributer also has different pages as a link on his site. The Key Blank pages will usually show you the side view and the end view of the key as well as any other ID info. You would hold your key up the page and be able to at least narrow it down to the specific key blank. The end view is as if your putting the key into a lock on the screen. That is how you would try to match it up. The rim cylinder is usually used on doors that have panic bars. On the opposite side of the lock you would in most cases but not always, have an escutchion (external decorative forged or stamped face plate that handle and lock is mounted to). Usually the lock will be held into place on the inside by a small housing with two screws and the locks tail piece would engage with the panic bar.

Thanks!
I´ll check them out, I have some locks without a key and thought about trying impressioning a new one

[EmCee]

This shape was invented 1924 in Germany by Sylvester Woehrle (see e.g. http://www.secupedia.info/wiki/Hahnprofil ), and the words "upside down" should be used carefully in this context - of course with the pins at the bottom they are installed "right way up" mh

Hey thanks mh - I didn't know about the date and name of inventor. When I said 'upside down' I was referring to the 'pear-shaped' description and being deferential to the greater number of US members of the site...of course, we both know full well which way is the 'right way' up and which is the 'wrong way up'. And it has nothing to do with the pear

Cheers...