Think a locksmith could do this for me?

[misterj]

I work at a building that's secured by Primus classic LFIC cylinders on the exterior, and "E" keyway LFIC cylinders on the interior (and on the exterior receiving door--which totally defeats the purpose of having Primus anywhere, but that's besides the point).

They were out of all the Primus masters and all the conventional (interior+receiving only) masters and needed to give me a key...since the Primus can't just be copied, one of the custodians ran over to the hardware store and had them make a copy of his interior master for me...and my key is "fidgety." Basically, if you leave the key sticking out from the cylinder a tiny bit, it works perfectly fine, but when it's all the way in, it doesn't. No one else seems to have an original key for me to borrow and copy, and most of the people who have masters really don't have one much better than mine to begin with. It's really a minor annoyance, but when I have three locked doors to go through at least a few times an hour + any wiring closets or other rooms throughout the day, it gets irritating.

I don't even care if they give me a Primus one at this point, since I park next to receiving anyway. The Primus ones actually have the same cuts as my interior master, they just have the side cuts too.

If I brought this key to a locksmith, what are the chances of them figuring out the cut depths and code-cutting me one? It's obviously not restricted at all--just an SC9 blank. I only ask before I just go because the two locksmiths around here are really far out of the way of anywhere I usually go.

Thanks for any input?

[chriswingate]

I'm pretty sure that every locksmith should have the ability to decode your key. They make little metal cards for that exact purpose, stick the key in it and it tells you what depth the cut is. Then all he/she has to do is cut you one from that code.

[Squelchtone]

I'm pretty sure that every locksmith should have the ability to decode your key. They make little metal cards for that exact purpose, stick the key in it and it tells you what depth the cut is. Then all he/she has to do is cut you one from that code.

Chris is right. Just make sure to specify to the locksmith that you are not interested in a key being made on a duplicator because it the spacing from the shoulder is off a hair, and you'd like them to cut you a key by code instead.

Squelchtone

[misterj]

Awesome...thanks a bunch to you both!

[Evan]

@misterj:

How many people work at your place of employment ?

If everyone is using copies of copies of keys it sounds like your employer has a very lax key control/security plan in place... It also kind of sounds like the master keys are being given out because no one has any usable remaining copies of the appropriate change keys...

It sounds to me that with all the turnover in employees and all the unaccounted for keys that your employer should invest in the $220 for a Schlage commercial pinning kit, the $1,050 for a Pro-Lok Blue Punch for Schlage, $50-ish for a set of metal alphanumerical stamps and the small amount of money for a few boxes of keyblanks...

That way the company will have the ability to punch out its own original keys which will function properly and also stamp the keys with individual identification numbers to properly account for the issued keys... Also it would allow someone in the company to re-key locks when keys become lost rather than simply copying another key and continuing on as if nothing serious has happened...

For $1,500 and a several hours of an employee's time your employer could regain control of its security, re-key all the locks to block all of the missing keys that were never returned by former employees and establish a system going forward to account for all the keys each employee is using...

As far as your issue about the Primus keys for the exterior doors being unavailable, this is a minor issue as they are the only such cylinders in your system and they can have their finger side pins replaced by an experienced locksmith to utilize a new Primus side bitting if you can not figure out which locksmith's side bitting you are presently using... I personally think that it is insanity to cut the facility master key onto a Primus blank and key up a couple of Primus cylinders to that master bitting to use on the entrance doors, those keys represent a HUGE security risk and replacement cost if they are lost...

Without knowing more about the physical layout of the building, the other layers of security protection that are in place and the number of employees that need early/late access to the building I can not offer more specific advice to totally resolve your key/security issues -- however discussion of that beyond what has been covered so far is inappropriate do to publicly so if you wish to add any more details or have any other questions please send me a PM...

In my opinion decoding the current keys and having new ones properly originated to specs by code is only treating the symptom here and is not the proper cure for the underlying condition causing it...

~~ Evan

[mhole]

You can also have your key mechanically dup'd and ask the lockie to leave you some extra meat at the shoulder. All he has to do is pull the original a hair away from the spacer. If he ers on the side of leaving too small a gap between the shoulder and first cut, you can always dress away the extra with a file until the spacing is spot on.

[misterj]

@misterj:

How many people work at your place of employment ?

If everyone is using copies of copies of keys it sounds like your employer has a very lax key control/security plan in place... It also kind of sounds like the master keys are being given out because no one has any usable remaining copies of the appropriate change keys...

It sounds to me that with all the turnover in employees and all the unaccounted for keys that your employer should invest in the $220 for a Schlage commercial pinning kit, the $1,050 for a Pro-Lok Blue Punch for Schlage, $50-ish for a set of metal alphanumerical stamps and the small amount of money for a few boxes of keyblanks...

That way the company will have the ability to punch out its own original keys which will function properly and also stamp the keys with individual identification numbers to properly account for the issued keys... Also it would allow someone in the company to re-key locks when keys become lost rather than simply copying another key and continuing on as if nothing serious has happened...

For $1,500 and a several hours of an employee's time your employer could regain control of its security, re-key all the locks to block all of the missing keys that were never returned by former employees and establish a system going forward to account for all the keys each employee is using...

As far as your issue about the Primus keys for the exterior doors being unavailable, this is a minor issue as they are the only such cylinders in your system and they can have their finger side pins replaced by an experienced locksmith to utilize a new Primus side bitting if you can not figure out which locksmith's side bitting you are presently using... I personally think that it is insanity to cut the facility master key onto a Primus blank and key up a couple of Primus cylinders to that master bitting to use on the entrance doors, those keys represent a HUGE security risk and replacement cost if they are lost...

Without knowing more about the physical layout of the building, the other layers of security protection that are in place and the number of employees that need early/late access to the building I can not offer more specific advice to totally resolve your key/security issues -- however discussion of that beyond what has been covered so far is inappropriate do to publicly so if you wish to add any more details or have any other questions please send me a PM...

In my opinion decoding the current keys and having new ones properly originated to specs by code is only treating the symptom here and is not the proper cure for the underlying condition causing it...

~~ Evan

Well, went to one of the local locksmiths this AM (the other was closed), and he looked at me like I had four heads and said he couldn't do anything better without an original.

Sent you a PM, Evan.

[Squelchtone]

Well, went to one of the local locksmiths this AM (the other was closed), and he looked at me like I had four heads and said he couldn't do anything better without an original.

Sent you a PM, Evan.

If he had an HPC 1200 he could have just made you a key by code using a code card. He must have just had a key duplicating machine.. garbage in, garbage out.

That's sad that so many locksmiths are like the experience you had.
Squelchtone

[misterj]

Well, went to one of the local locksmiths this AM (the other was closed), and he looked at me like I had four heads and said he couldn't do anything better without an original.

Sent you a PM, Evan.

If he had an HPC 1200 he could have just made you a key by code using a code card. He must have just had a key duplicating machine.. garbage in, garbage out.

That's sad that so many locksmiths are like the experience you had.
Squelchtone

I know the other locksmith has at least a Best punch because he's made me up Best keys with it before...I'll give him a shot...when I went by it was a little too early for him to be open, he opens and closes an hour later than the other one.

[misterj]

Well, went to one of the local locksmiths this AM (the other was closed), and he looked at me like I had four heads and said he couldn't do anything better without an original.

Sent you a PM, Evan.

If he had an HPC 1200 he could have just made you a key by code using a code card. He must have just had a key duplicating machine.. garbage in, garbage out.

That's sad that so many locksmiths are like the experience you had.
Squelchtone

FWIW, he started to go on about how the locks were probably going bad. When I explained that the key was a master to 150+ locks and that it did the same thing in all of them, that didn't seem to make a difference to him.

[Evan]

Well, went to one of the local locksmiths this AM (the other was closed), and he looked at me like I had four heads and said he couldn't do anything better without an original.

Sent you a PM, Evan.

If he had an HPC 1200 he could have just made you a key by code using a code card. He must have just had a key duplicating machine.. garbage in, garbage out.

That's sad that so many locksmiths are like the experience you had.
Squelchtone

@Squelchtone:

Or even *gasp* a Pro-Lok Blue Punch... I wonder how much this facility could save if they bought a blue punch and several boxes of keys...

~~ Evan

[antz_539]

moral of the story - don't go to a hardware store to get keys cut.

[chriswingate]

I find it amazing that a "locksmith" can function and actually run a business without some sort of code machine, be it a punch or whatever.

[Raymond]

Even 50 year old depth keys could solve this problem. Need to go to a locksmith that doesn't mind actually acting like a locksmith.

[misterj]

moral of the story - don't go to a hardware store to get keys cut.

Very true...I think they do that because the hardware store is basically walking distance, while a locksmith is a 20 minute drive.

I find it amazing that a "locksmith" can function and actually run a business without some sort of code machine, be it a punch or whatever.

I was shocked, too!

Even 50 year old depth keys could solve this problem. Need to go to a locksmith that doesn't mind actually acting like a locksmith.

I'm trying the other one Monday...I think even I've actually figured out the cut depths for the key (by comparing it to other Schlage keys with known depths). I'm about 95% sure I have it correct.