repinning yale lock

[tx101]

Hi Guys..

I've just started having a look at locks and got my picks today. First, I bought a couple of 4 pin master padlocks. The first one I had no luck with.. but about 10sec after I picked up the second one, I had it open. I have since been unable to replicate this incident

I went to B&Q and bought a couple of the cheapest padlocks I could find. With one, the lock entrance is too small to get both a pick and a tensioner.. the other looks like yet another 4 pin master copy.

I also bought a yale 6 pin lock barrel. I got it home and managed to damage two springs taking it apart . But now that it's apart, I can't work out how to get i back together with just a couple of pins.. anyone got any ideas?

[Mad Mick]

From the pic: Put the plug back into the cylinder with the holes at the top, then put the key/lower pins back into the first two holes (the ones nearest the lock face...and make sure they are pointy end downwards).

Next, put the driver/top pins in, followed by the springs. Re-insert the oblong brass plate into the top of the bible and recrimp into position.

The normal method is to use a plug follower, and remove/add pinstacks through the holes in the bible via the cylinder bore.

Do a search for repinning and read everything.

[32768]

It looks like you already have the cover off the pin stacks (the long flat oval piece). So you can put the plug back into the body and drop the pins in from the top. Put the plug in, turn it so the holes line up with the holes in the body, and you should be able to drop in the bottom pin, then the top pin, then the spring into each stack. Then slide the top cover back in and you're done.

That's the easiest way I've found to do it without a plug follower.

An alternative would be to put the cover back on and put the springs and top pins in from inside the hole in the body. Then put the bottom pins into the plug and slide it back in while you hold the top pins in the body with a screwdriver. It may be easier to load up one stack at a time from front to back while you push the plug in.

Once you've gotten it back together, remember to put the clip on the back so it doesn't come apart the first time you open it!

[mbell]

You're not alone in this situation.

When I first started picking I did exactly the same, took a Yale to bits not knowing how to put it back together and damaging a couple of the springs.

Not a lot to add to what Mad Mick & 32768 have already said regarding putting it back together. It can be an incredibly tedious processs which is made worse by not knowing exactly the technique. Try, try and try again.

BTW, you might want to try picking the cylinder with the two steel pins first if you've no got any experience with security pins.

[MrB]

Aww, shame you mangled those springs. That happened to me the first time I tried taking a lock apart. But actually, I note there are six pins but only five springs on display. Did one of them happen to go ping into the farthest recesses of the room? That also happened to me once.

I'm wiser and more careful now.

[tx101]

It looks like you already have the cover off the pin stacks (the long flat oval piece). So you can put the plug back into the body and drop the pins in from the top. Put the plug in, turn it so the holes line up with the holes in the body, and you should be able to drop in the bottom pin, then the top pin, then the spring into each stack. Then slide the top cover back in and you're done.

That's the easiest way I've found to do it without a plug follower.

Yeah I tried that, but after you drop the key pin and driver pin into the plug, they sit above the level of the plug ie. no chance of getting a spring in there, much less cover.

An alternative would be to put the cover back on and put the springs and top pins in from inside the hole in the body. Then put the bottom pins into the plug and slide it back in while you hold the top pins in the body with a screwdriver. It may be easier to load up one stack at a time from front to back while you push the plug in.

Once you've gotten it back together, remember to put the clip on the back so it doesn't come apart the first time you open it!

Yeah, this is the way I thought of last night after posting but then disissed it - "it can't be THAT much of a PITA can it??"

Well, obviously it can

[toomush2drink]

Ok get a piece of dowel rod that will go inside the barrel and cut a slot across the end.
Place the dowel into the back of the lock up to where the last pin will go, now drop in a spring and it should fall ito the slot you have made and then into its hole in the barrel.

Now take a top pin and a pick (diamond should be fine) and ddo the same again with the top pin which obviously cannot fall into the hole where the spring is so you push it down with the pick and slide the dowel towards the front of the lock and stop at the next hole.
Repeat this process until all the top pins and springs are in place and the dowel is at the front of the lock.
Now take the core place the key in it and put the pins into it so that they are all in the right places, by that i mean so that they are all flush.

Finally push the core into the barrel as though it is open ie 45 degrees until you have pushed the dowel out of the back. Once it is all the way in return it to the locked position and remove the key gently and the core will be locked.
Now replace the retaining clip and voila you have reassembled your lock.

[32768]

Yeah I tried that, but after you drop the key pin and driver pin into the plug, they sit above the level of the plug ie. no chance of getting a spring in there, much less cover.

Try putting the plug into the shell (/bible /housing /...) before you put in any pins. You put the main parts of the lock together before the fiddly ones. Add the pins by dropping them in through the holes in the top of the shell- bottom pin then top pin then spring. When it's all together, I like to hold in the springs with a finger or some tape and try the key before putting in the top cover. This makes sure I haven't put a bottom pin in upside down (well, usually) or put two top pins in one stack or something.

If you go with the PITA method, just put the bottom pin for each stack into the plug. The other pin goes into the shell on top of the spring before you slide the plug into the shell. The idea is that you're imitating the state of the lock after it's been picked (or opened with a key, but who does that?). The bottom pins are loose in the plug and the top pins are pushed up above the shear line. When you slide in the plug, make sure that the top and bottom pins do NOT line up. Otherwise, the first top pin will drop down into the backmost hole in the plug and you'll have what's referred to in the literature as 'a mess'. To avoid this, slide the plug into the shell with the keyway turned sideways, or at least at a bit of an angle. When it's pushed all the way in you can turn it to the locked position and you'll hear the top pins snap down locking the lock.

Incidently, does anyone know what the holes in the bottom of the shell are for? I've seen these for pushing the pin stacks out of IC cores. I could also imagine that it's easier for the manufacturer to drill a through hole than a blind one, but that's probably not what's going on here since my cheapo cores don't have this 'feature'.

[locksmistress]

I do not think that the flat bit is the top cap - I'm guessing it is a plate that slides into a groove in the bottom of the housing to keep the pins from falling out of those holes if the plug is turned 180 or more.

tx 101 - can you elucidate? Or take a pic of the top of the housing? I think that you can re-pin this without any extra parts - although a small pliers or tweezer would handy.

Load bottom pins into 3 chambers of the plug.

Put the bottom plate back in the housing.

Put the plug back in with the holes at about a 90 degree angle to the bible (where the springs go) and use it as a follower to load your springs and drivers. Make sure to load the same three chambers top and bottom.

And you should be pretty much done.

I think that the holes in the bottom of the housing facilitate keying in the manufacturing process. The times when I have come across the bottom plate I haven't been able to remove it without taking out the plug. I haven't tried too hard because it definately won't allow you to clear master pins from the top chambers. It seems to be a residential-retail sort of application though, so master pins aren't probably much of a concern.

Good Luck!

[locksmistress]

Oops - not 90 degrees - you can use your plug as a follower but you have to watch out for the deep notches in the back and the construction key holes.

About 135 should work... Even if you do use a seperate follower you'll have to watch the angle of the plug pretty carefully.

[raimundo]

You can find old locks on doors being thrown out, and salvage them, the pins and springs in them are pretty interchangable so you will be able to replace the mangled springs. just keep all the parts in a plastic jar, like the ones vitamins come in, and these will be handy to have, you can use the pins to fit locks to keys that are precut, (old keys you find that have no locks). Half inch wooden dowel from the hardware store will make a good follower, its better than solid metal bar stock because it has less weight and will be less inclined to fall out of a cylinder under its own weight, and when you need a special cutaway for one of the ends, that is easily done on wooden dowel.

[tx101]

I do not think that the flat bit is the top cap - I'm guessing it is a plate that slides into a groove in the bottom of the housing to keep the pins from falling out of those holes if the plug is turned 180 or more.

tx 101 - can you elucidate? Or take a pic of the top of the housing? I think that you can re-pin this without any extra parts - although a small pliers or tweezer would handy.

I think it's a bottom plate too.. although I'm far from an expert.. Here's a photo:


I'll try to put some of it back together tonight.. thanks for all the info!

On a happier note.. I can now pick one of my Master 140 padlocks in around 30sec fairly consistiently. I'm surprised at how little pressure you need on the tension wrench and how much pressure you need on the pick to push the pins up far enough...

[toomush2drink]

yes the bottom plate is for manufacturing purposes mainly i think, so does need to be removed. By taking it all apart your learning so have fun.

[tx101]

okay, so I got the first two pins in what must be the most fiddly process I've ever encountered ... so I'm trying to pick this two pin lock and it if it isn't difficult! What I found was that if I pick it, then turn it upside down and shake it, my meager skills can defeat the lock in about 5sec. But I don't even have a chance if it's right way up.. any ideas?
(nd yes, I put the normal driver pins in, not the security ones)

also, I'm thinking about getting out the dremel and cutting slots in the bible so I can see the pins/springs moving.. good idea or no?

[toomush2drink]

practice and use light tension