The H2K2 Videos

[Varjeal]

I've watched both of the videos in their entirety, and from a locksmith's point of view, I have to say I'm extremely disappointed with this videos.

Although both showed some neat "tricks" hardly anything in the presentations were "newbie-friendly". At least, that's my opinion.

Also, I found the 400 MB one very condescending towards locksmiths in general because of some of the comments made about locksmiths.

This in itself upset me because of all the people in the world, who would YOU think would mostly comprise the majority of lock pickers???

I also found the use of proper terminology in both videos very poor, even taking into consideration the translation factor.

As pointed out by the "Key" or whatever his name is, it is evident that he is a self-taught lock picker, a very good one, by the looks of it.

I apologize in advance for this little rant, but it annoys me to no end when someone slams on my profession without very much knowledge of how things are supposed to work.

As in every trade and every business we as locksmiths have our bad apples too, but we definitely are not as bad (as a whole at least) as this guy would make out.

Other than for entertainment value, I really wouldn't bother watching either of these videos for any education purpose.

That's my opinion though.

[Luke]

I agree with Varjeal, the videos were an extream waste of time. Apart from the fact that you couldn;t see what was going on with the picks etc. They at the start of one of the vids knocked locksmiths, saying things like "they'll just tear the door out" and the like. Barry "Key" and Hans "Unicorn" - apart from the fact of being very good lock pickers (and people with corny nick names lol "Unicorn") were fairly dissapointing. I would reccomend downloading the video's all together.

[Bitter Man]

Agreed that hes hitting lock smiths pretty hard, but bear in mind he is from Holland (I think thats it?). Perhaps the dutch locksmiths hes encountered are real jerks. Repeatedly through both these videos he says how he doesn't know much about American locks and American stuff in general. Having never encountered a Dutch locksmith I'm not sure how they operate but maybe thats what hes whining about. Aside from the negatives I think its really really cool to see a little dutch man picking these rediculously high security locks. :-D

[sotsog]

I definately have to agree with you there, the terminology is very poor, the people picking the locks are giving little or no explanation as to what they are doing, the whole thing is in general un rehearsed and is enought to put anybody off of lockpicking.

As for the locksmith situation, i think it is appaling how the presenters treat the whole situation, most locksmiths are honest respectable people, with a genuine interest in locks and their working, and have no intention to cause any damage or theft through their work, as Varjeal said, every job has some black sheep, but people cannot let a few individuals change their opinion on locksmiths in general
Thanks
Luke

[Varjeal]

I must say that I would've like to have had better quality and close ups when he picked that Multi-lock. It would've been a good demo for me and other experienced guys/gals.

[DrDave]

I too have watched both Videos in their entirety. I'm fortunate enough to have High-Speed Cable, so the LARGE files were not the problem for me that ones with "Dial-Up" would have in the D/L time. In my many ventures in life, I'm a Licensed FCC Broadcast engineer and must also agree with the above posts as to the POOR Quality AND POOR "Framing" of these Videos. Having said that they are, to my knowledge, the ONLY Video information of this kind that is FREE and available for ANYONE to D/L!

When I watched, what I was able to see in the two 1-Hour (+) entire videos, I was able to digest information that I either did NOT have any prior knowledge of or only sketchy information prior to the viewing. In my opinion, I watched the Videos FOR THE INFORMATION ABOUT LOCKS... NOT personal opinions of those giving the presentations.

I have Searched the web High & Wide and have compiled "Locksmith Info" CD's A-G... or what amounts to about 5Gb of information, some of it was FREE, as those two Videos, and some of the Info I had to pay for. All in all, those two Videos stand alone as some of the BEST information on unusual AND Hard to Get Info, at least from my standpoint. The only other info that surpasses those, in my opinion, are the “LSS” CD(s), and they COST Big $$$ USD $$$.

That's my input... YES I agree, the "Key" and his fellow Facilitators of these presentations should have probably kept most of their personal opinions to themselves in reference to the Locksmith Profession... But sometimes, you GET what you PAY for… Remember these are FREE!

DrDave-USA

[Varjeal]

DrDave: Well said.

[P[]LYP]

I agree Varjeal, some of the lines in it i.e "Locksmiths just make a mess and rip your door out basially" thats a very harse comment to make and out of order. I also thought teh terminolgy was bad.

[jaypic]

As a property manager we have had a number of locksmiths respond to lockouts. (I am still searching for a true master picker.)

In most cases we had a simple cost benefit choice to make

1.5 hr service call to "rip out" and reinstall a new lock or ...2 or 3 hours to pick open the lock. Much cheaper to rip out and install a new lock.

Of course lockpick purists would consider option 1 to amount to butchering the job.

Due to lazyness, or ecconomic realities, most commercial locksmiths picking skills appear to me, to be far below the level of good picking hobbiests. I asssume few locksmiths practice lockpicking night and day the way Barry the key does and others do.

While some advanced hobbiests can pick a complicated lock in a short time.....a locksmith would take too long to make it cost effective.

My other fustration in talking with the locksmiths, was that without exception, they considered "hobby lockpicking" to be an excuse to be learning burglar skills. There was the old "security through obscurity" argument being made. we won't be robbed if the public doesn't know how to picklocks

[Varjeal]

jaypic: I thoroughly agree with you...locksmiths in general, and even myself for awhile, have cut back on the amount of picking we actually do to the microwave and fast food era that we live in.

Most locksmiths that I have seen, myself included, would probably not have a chance against an advanced lockpick hobbyist, and that distresses me a bit, as lock picking requires more skill than foreceable entry.

Since coming to this forum I've had an opportunity to meet people who truly enjoy picking, and it has inspired me to pick up (pun intended) the tools once again, and maybe acquire a few I've been avoiding getting, and using them not only in my profession, but just for the fun of it as well.

I know from experience customers always look in awe when you can pick what they consider is a difficult lock, rather than reaching for the drill.

I too, once considered "hobby lockpicking" to be tantamount to learning burglary skills, but I've come to realize something.

One of the ways that we can increase security in our homes and business' effectively is by having a knowledgeable customer base who knows what to ask for in terms of security products.

Also, we can't expect a few elite locksmiths to come up with new ideas all of the time. Why not have some of the public asking more intelligent questions, and perhaps developing their own security products?

Also, how do we plan on bringing in new security professionals if they have no interest? Too many, including myself, kinda fell into our professions...and that's pretty embarrassing if you ask me.

Just my opinion though.

[Eagerpicker]

Bitterman calls Barry 'The Key' Wels 'a little dutch man'. From experience, I can tell you he's not so little. In fact, he could swat any sixteen-year-old with a flick of his wrist. But he wouldn't, because he is a real good-humoured, kind guy. The stuff he says on the video is something that Dutch locksmiths aren't known for in general - I can assure you - but there are those around, as I'm sure there are in the US, who call themselves locksmiths but are in fact total cons and charlatans. They'll come to your house, charge you the earth and tell you the only solution to opening the door is breaking it down. Frauds are everywhere.

I can fully appreciate Varjeal's reaction to thoughtless generalizations, though; wouldn't take it personally though, as like I said above, The Key's comments are not directed at professional locksmiths.

As for the videos' qualities, beside such and other off-topic remarks, I do not think they help a starting lockpicker much at all. I was VERY surprised, if not disappointed, to see at the start of one of them the message 'we did not film the screen' (so basically you can now watch two guys at a table talking for two hours or so). The animations that I posted a link to in another thread are much more helpful (www.picklocks.com).

[Mister Hobbs]

Varjeal,

You know the economics involved and you have stated them yourself. If the Netherlands (or wherever) guys slammed Locksmiths over there because they would just "tear the door down," don't shoot the messenger for the message. This has been going on and brewing for years on end.

Once upon a time, the drill and jig was the absolute last resort because it (picking) was a Craft. And when I say, "absolute last resort," it was the mark of failure when you had to do it because the vast majority of Locksmiths were Pickmen.

Like we were discussing lever tumbler locks in that other thread, why does only one major company (HPC) continue to make the turning tools for these locks? Most people use the nose puller and away they go collecting the loot, simple as that. Barring older applications, you primarily see these locks on night (drop) deposits at banks and on safe deposit boxes. It has become more of a business than a Craft and that, I think, is where I agree with them and what they might have possibly been trying to get across because they took the time to learn things that people in the business did not and are not interested in.

I was taught by a CML who was also a Member of SAVTA. I know what a Pickman is. I also know that the majority of guys in my area are not what used to be referred to as a Pickman. I can't speak for Canada, Holland or The Netherlands or anywhere else but here.

If you make you the best Locksmith you can be, you will be so, period. You will be a credit to your profession. You can also influence other people in your profession to try a little bit harder with the manipulation.

But most people that get into Locksmithing now are primarily interested in big money and less the "Craft" or "Trade" aspects of it.

[Varjeal]

If people get into locksmithing for "big money" they're in for a serious suprise. Yeah, I agree with most of what you said. There are few people in the trade who really pride themselves on being able to "pick" a lock rather than bypass or drill it.

It's partly because of human laziness and the microwave/fast food generation we live in. No one wants to wait to see if a locksmith can pick open the door to whatever, they just want in. Immediately.

I trust that by my contribution to this site that more people (and perhaps eventually more locksmiths) with take the time to perfect and enjoy this profession.

[Mister Hobbs]

Varjeal,

If someone is going into an Apprentice Program with a Locksmith, you would be dead on the money. You're not going to make much over the next five years. But there are NO destitute Certified Locksmiths or Certified Master Locksmiths. If they are destitute, it is their own poor management skills or the area they are in, etc. I have never known a Locksmith that lived poorly.

I once opened an Army Colonel's house for him. He had a two-piece keychain, the small spring-loaded plunger type with the tiny ball-bearing that holds the assembly together, etc. He left the house key part on the kitchen table and went to work with only his car keys. I told him the price which at the time was $50.00 if I remember correctly. He agreed, no problem. His Wife was not going to be home for hours and he did not want to break anything.

I said to him, standing in front of his door, "You're not going to get mad at me if this thing pops right open, are you?"

And he started to grin, "No, I won't, I'm interested in this anyway."

It took me longer to unzip an HPC pick case and take one pick and wrench out then it did to open the door.

I never understood how $200,000 houses came with $20.00 Kwikset door knobs and a like-priced deadbolt. When he left the house, he knew he screwed up when he could not lock the deadbolt, so I only had to pick the doorknob. Piece of cake.

The point I am trying to make is, I know guys that would have wrenched the knob, drilled it or would have used the core removal tool on the doorknob because they can't pick worth a . And they get a bonus if they can't pick, they get to tear something up and then they have to replace it which is more money in their pocket. Some of them do this sort of thing. They used to be called "Butchers." Now it is wrapped up in "profitability."

I'm not saying you are like this at all, I'm saying they exist, they're out there in great numbers and it seems as though they are the majority now instead of the other way around.

[Varjeal]

True enough. The point I was trying to make was that you're not going to make millions by just learning how to pick. There's a whole skill set involved that goes way beyond opening padlocks and house doors, and it's not going to happen overnight.

I understand how $200,000 houses come with $20 locks, and I'm sure you'll agree with me. It's all about the economics. The builder wants to make the most amount of money with the least amount of expenditure. He/she has no interest in what the lock is supposed to accomplish as long as it operates right (mostly). It's up to locksmiths and security professionals to educate people on the availability of more secure types of hardware.

I disagree that the "butchers" are the majority, but I do agree that there are wayyyyy too many of them, and that's one of the reasons why I joined this site.

1. To promote lockpicking as a hobby/sport.
2. To promote locksmithing as a viable and interesting trade that skilled men and women can consider for the future.
3. To promote the locksmith trade as an honorable and professional trade.

I believe in time, and with enough interested and successful people, that one day we, in the trade, can truly call ourselves "locksmiths" again.