Vancouver: Locksmith under supervision license needed. Help!

[Evan]

UPDATE: However, it requires 5400 hours of work experience to be allowed to get a challenge of qualification

yeah, I ran into this when getting a low voltage installer license to install CCTV cameras. they needed 4500 hours under a licensed electrician. No wonder so many cowboys run businesses out of their vans and trunks and are not properly licensed or insured, its just too expensive and time consuming to get a small business started.

Squelchtone

@Squelchtone:

Its not just any old 4,500 hours to get your Massachusetts Class D low voltage, but you have to be working under someone in possession of a higher class of license who does Class D type jobs, you can't apprentice under a Journeyman Electrician and work on houses or commercial lighting doing general electrical work and get your 4,500 hours counted for Class D licensure...

Not to mention that the Department of Public Safety wants people working on "Security Systems" to have an "S-License" issued by them to work on such devices... Given that many security systems are fully integrated, that could mean you not only need the Class D license to work on the telephone, intercom, data network, cable tv, CCTV, fire alarms, security alarms or Building Management Systems, but if any of those types of wiring are being used in a "Security System" you also need an S-License to be able to legally work on them...

All of that however isn't as bad as the hoops you have to jump through in some places...

~~ Evan

[Squelchtone]

UPDATE: However, it requires 5400 hours of work experience to be allowed to get a challenge of qualification

yeah, I ran into this when getting a low voltage installer license to install CCTV cameras. they needed 4500 hours under a licensed electrician. No wonder so many cowboys run businesses out of their vans and trunks and are not properly licensed or insured, its just too expensive and time consuming to get a small business started.

Squelchtone

@Squelchtone:

Its not just any old 4,500 hours to get your Massachusetts Class D low voltage, but you have to be working under someone in possession of a higher class of license who does Class D type jobs, you can't apprentice under a Journeyman Electrician and work on houses or commercial lighting doing general electrical work and get your 4,500 hours counted for Class D licensure...

Not to mention that the Department of Public Safety wants people working on "Security Systems" to have an "S-License" issued by them to work on such devices... Given that many security systems are fully integrated, that could mean you not only need the Class D license to work on the telephone, intercom, data network, cable tv, CCTV, fire alarms, security alarms or Building Management Systems, but if any of those types of wiring are being used in a "Security System" you also need an S-License to be able to legally work on them...

All of that however isn't as bad as the hoops you have to jump through in some places...

~~ Evan

Thanks for the details on this. I was however under the impression the S license is just a back ground check they run to make sure ex-con's aren't being hired by alarm companies.

The electrician I worked under for several years specialized in computer network wiring, intercom, telephone, cctv, so he seemed to think he could be my 'sponsor' when it came to saying that I worked enough hours under his tutelage to apply for the low voltage, but then they changed it from like 3000 to 4500 hours (those numbers are what I seem to remember them being, they may not be exact) and at that point I said, F this, I cant wait another 2 years...

sorry to hijack thread! =)
Squelchtone

[scriptguru]

Guys, I have a great news - just have got an official response.

One don't need license to pick one's own locks in Canada!

It's win, friends!

[averagejoe]

It does not matter if its legal or illegal to pick locks, its the tools used to do it. Basically if you use anything to pick a lock, it becomes a lock pick by law I believe. And the tools are still illegal.

[Squelchtone]

Guys, I have a great news - just have got an official response.

One don't need license to pick one's own locks in Canada!

It's win, friends!

Can you go back and ask them if it is ok to keep lockpicks in your own house? and can you transport them to a lock meeting at a friends house?

interested in knowing the answer,
Squelchtone

[scriptguru]

OK, let me post here whole reply, which states clearly that not only picking own locks is legal, but also possession is legal:

Dear Val Polyakh:

In response to your inquiry, you do not require a security worker license for the purpose of possession of lock picking tools. A security worker license is required for anyone operating or employed as a locksmith.

In Canada, possession of lock picking tools, with the exception of key duplication tools, is legal. Lock pick tools fit in the same category as crowbars or hammers, meaning they are legal to possess and use unless they are used to commit a crime or if it is shown there was "intention to commit a crime" in which case "Possession of tools with the intention of committing a crime" applies - which carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in jail. See Part VIII - Section 351. Some provinces require a license to carry lock picks.

Please be advised section 351 of the Criminal Code states:

351. (1) Every one who, without lawful excuse, the proof of which lies on him, has in his possession any instrument suitable for the purpose of breaking into any place, motor vehicle, vault or safe under circumstances that give rise to a reasonable inference that the instrument has been used or is or was intended to be used for any such purpose, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

In British Columbia, the Security Services Act section 25 (4) states:
(4) A person, other than an authorized person or an owner of a locking device, must not possess any instrument designed or adapted to open or bypass a locking device without using the key or combination unique to that locking device, including any of the following:

(a) a key;

(b) a pick;

(c) a rocker key;

(d) a vibrating pick tool.


As such, you do not require a security license to own lock pick tools as long as you are only opening your own locks and not offering any service to others.

Regards

Stephen Hitchcock
Stephen G. Hitchcock
Manager Compliance and Enforcement

Security Programs Division
Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General
Box 9217 Stn Prov Govt
Victoria BC V8W 9J1

Office Phone:(250) 387 - 2658
Fax:(250) 387 - 1911
Cellular:(250) 213 - 5629
e-mail: Stephen.Hitchcock@gov.bc.ca
Security Programs website: http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/securityindustry/index.htm

[averagejoe]

Very interesting.... Dont delete that email....better yet print it off and keep it next to your picks..

[scriptguru]

Of course, that's why I asked a question!
Already printed few copies.

[RDC-1]

I realize this is an old post but my understanding of the Law is you can possess lock picks and use them for opening your own locks or someone else's lock with their permission,( you cannot charge for this).

As long as there is no criminal intent in which the proof lies on you. i.e. if you stopped by police at 2am standing in front of a bank and you have your picks with you, this would be Reasonable and probable cause to believe that you have a criminal intent to Break In and could be arrested.

The Attorney General of BC (Security Programs Division) clearly identifies this and all persons acting as a Locksmith must be Licensed, insured and bonded.

As to a Locksmith under supervision, a previous post pretty much sums it up, (Must be under direct supervision of a "Locksmith"

In conclusion a Hobbyist does not need a license to use or possess Lock picks.

[Squelchtone]

I realize this is an old post

best necromancing of an old post in ages! As long as the reply adds useful or updated info or helps answer an old question left somewhat in the wind, I see no problem with it.

Squelchtone