sharing trade secrets

[LocksmithArmy]

i was told that "real locksmith" are not allowed to share "trade secrets" to the general public or they could lose their state lisence (in "most" states)

im also told they will be kicked out of the ALOA... i dont particularly care about the ALOA but I am curious about the state lisence bit...
has any lisenced locksmiths been told this when applying for a lisence.

i did not know enough about the lisencing process to argue this point, but i see way too many locksmiths on here or youtube to feel this is true.

[averagejoe]

I think you would have to define what is a trade "SECRET" first lol. As you said, with the internet and youtube there is "not much" that is not publicly known.

[Squelchtone]

I think you would have to define what is a trade "SECRET" first lol. As you said, with the internet and youtube there is "not much" that is not publicly known.

I had a locksmith tell me once they don't sell spool pins to the public and looked at me with suspicion that I even knew what they were.. He also said all Medeco's have spool pins in them, so he obviously considers mushroom pins "spool pins"... People here know I'm not a fan of the old secret locksmith guild mentality, so that's all I'm saying on this topic.

Squelchtone

[MBI]

i was told that "real locksmith" are not allowed to share "trade secrets" to the general public or they could lose their state lisence (in "most" states)

im also told they will be kicked out of the ALOA... i dont particularly care about the ALOA but I am curious about the state lisence bit...
has any lisenced locksmiths been told this when applying for a lisence.

i did not know enough about the lisencing process to argue this point, but i see way too many locksmiths on here or youtube to feel this is true.

As I understand it, most states don't even require locksmiths to be licensed. The few that do, it's so restrictive the laws appear to have been put into place through the lobbying of established locksmiths to try to prevent new competitors to enter the marketplace, as opposed to any legitimate regulation for the purpose of protecting the public from unscrupulous con men masquerading as locksmiths.

Who told you this? I'd be suspicious of the motives of whomever it was.

[maintenanceguy]

fortunately in the US, it's not illegal to share information.

[MacGyver101]

i was told that "real locksmith" are not allowed to share "trade secrets" to the general public or they could lose their state lisence (in "most" states) [...] im also told they will be kicked out of the ALOA

The only situation I could think of where that might apply is if you actually started spilling your employer's actual trade secrets. Something like "here's the full details of the super-secret alloy we use in our hardplate", or "here's a copy of the factory test software that puts our electronic locks into bypass mode". I'm not familiar with the various state licensing requirements -- so I'm just guessing a bit based on how my engineering license works -- but spilling those types of actual trade secrets would probably run you afoul of some sort of "ethical conduct" clause in the state's locksmith licensing act.

I'd be very surprised if you could lose your license for disclosing "secrets of the trade" that aren't "trade secrets" in the legal sense -- things like drill points for safes, techniques for lockpicking, or anything else that could be discovered by any member of the public.

On the ALOA front, I have no idea. They're a private organization, and have every right to make up whatever rules they'd like: if the Academy of Magic Arts can kick you out for giving away magic tricks, I suppose the ALOA could do the same for giving away locksmithing tricks. (And I mean no disrespect to either group there: they're both professional groups... I'm just drawing a comparison.)

[camelgd]

A couple of notes from an old codger (30 years in the locksmith business),who no longer belongs to ALOA.
1) I dropped out of ALOA because they tried to add extra dues to pay for lobbying legislators for locksmith registration, and I disagreed with the registration legislation, as well as forcing me to pay for something I thought was only to benefit large shops.
2) I always joke with people who ask about getting into the trade that you have to take a vow of poverty. However, I did not take a vow of silence. The number of people that I have taught even the basics can be counted on three fingers, but I do answer questions in general terms. It depends on who's doing the asking.
3) I have a CML earned from ALOA, which got me grandfathered in under current Illinois Registration laws. I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone trying to start out from scratch in our state, because apprenticeship is simply not available. And that is how I started, as green as grass, as an apprentice.
That's enough to chew on for now,
Camelgd

[Raymond]

Amen to that. I believe that most state laws were enacted to"
1. Prevent persons with criminal backgrounds from becoming licensed.
2. Make a lot of money for insurance companies.
3. Make more money for the state agency because they now have to hire more people to operate a new beauracracy.

In Texas an unlicensed person, including anyone with a criminal record, can still duplicate keys for both the public and in-house; can rekey locks being sold by the retail store they work in; and can do lockouts. They can work for the service contractor on a military base doing all parts of locksmithing because it is not under state jurisdiction.

The Texas law mentions license revocation for illegal and immoral and inappropriate actions but is not specific. So, I guess if you taught a bump key class to gang members or people on probation it would probably be noticed. But simply providing information cannot be restricted due to constitutional issues.

[LocksmithArmy]

thats pretty mucn what i thought, i just wasnt positive, thanks guys

[bobhdus]

Good topic locksmitharmy, and btw, I really enjoy your website and youtube posts. Thanks for sharing what you do as well as your service. As far as sharing trade secrets are concerned, I remember yrs ago, Foley-Belsaw used to have a code of ethics section in their locksmith training books that discussed the need to refrain from showing your customers and friends certain aspects of lock work. Personally, I hate picking locks with a room full of eyes on me only to hear that I "must suck because it only took 2 seconds for the guy in the movies to open a lock". Nothing worse than taking your car to a shop and being told to pay several hundred bucks and you never really see or have explanation what was wrong. Sometimes I explain to a customer how something works so they understand why they are paying me to fix it, but I will usually get them busy doing something paperwork, glass of water etc...) to keep them from seeing how hard or easy the job may be. But I don't offer to show people things that they have no reason to know. Every now and then I will come across someone that for whatever reason has a set of picks. At that point I offer to buy them or refrain from showing them anything. I paid for my training, they can too. Thanks

[bobhdus]

Good topic locksmitharmy, and btw, I really enjoy your website and youtube posts. Thanks for sharing what you do as well as your service. As far as sharing trade secrets are concerned, I remember yrs ago, Foley-Belsaw used to have a code of ethics section in their locksmith training books that discussed the need to refrain from showing your customers and friends certain aspects of lock work. Personally, I hate picking locks with a room full of eyes on me only to hear that I "must suck because it only took 2 seconds for the guy in the movies to open a lock". Nothing worse than taking your car to a shop and being told to pay several hundred bucks and you never really see or have explanation what was wrong. Sometimes I explain to a customer how something works so they understand why they are paying me to fix it, but I will usually get them busy doing something paperwork, glass of water etc...) to keep them from seeing how hard or easy the job may be. But I don't offer to show people things that they have no reason to know. Every now and then I will come across someone that for whatever reason has a set of picks. At that point I offer to buy them or refrain from showing them anything. I paid for my training, they can too. Thanks

I also wanted to mention that in my previous post (which I could not edit) is in dealing with people "out there". I am willing to share stuff on here and in other forums that are dealing with people that may have a "need to know", but we have rules here that are for our protection as well as Moderators to ensure nothing too harmful (like Safe work or opening locks we should not be working on) is posted here or to the general public. Even with paid training, there is so much to learn and I appreciate what gets shared here. Thanks again

[Rickthepick]

Theres a big difference between

knowing how something is done and Being able to do something

Iv had a couple of locksmiths/handymen call me to help them out when they have drilled a lock wrong (i dont help them btw)

Its not just about having the secret knowledge that is just a small part of being a locksmith.

Id say the most important skill is being able to think on your feet and improvise when there are complications or you are up against something new.

The people who keep the knowledge to themselves are usually the ones that do a lot of talking and not a lot of 'doing'

[Tyler J. Thomas]

im also told they will be kicked out of the ALOA... i dont particularly care about the ALOA but I am curious about the state lisence bit...

They made a huge fuss over Marc Tobias a while back over his books, public exploits, etc. I don't think it cost him his membership but a lot of the older guys were angry at him and requested he be removed.

I speak publicly about certain things (presentations, articles, etc.) primarily vulnerabilities, bypasses, and the like. I'd want any other member of an industry or trade to do the same when it comes to products that my family and I use, even if it threatened membership to their association. My thought has always been if ALOA has a problem with it, I'll just leave.