Recommend cutting machine with micrometers

[psehorne]

I have the Foley-Belsaw Model 200 Key Machine. Got it from craigslist. Now I would like to upgrade to a machine that has micrometers. I know micrometers are available for my machine, but is there another cost-effective alternative in the sub $1000 price range?

Do any of you have any experienced opinion on the Foley-Belsaw machine with micrometers added? Would you recommend adding them instead of buying a different machine. I'm just a hobbyist; and not looking for a multi-thousand-machine. The cost of buying a different machine would be offset somewhat by what I could get for the Model 200.

Thanks,
Paul

[LocksmithArmy]

i really like the framon machine, its got micrometers for depth and spacing... i dont think it is under 1000 though, maybe used...
the hpc1200 has a mmicrometer card... but again not under 1000... maybe used...

thats all i got off the top of my head.

[psehorne]

i really like the framon machine, its got micrometers for depth and spacing... i dont think it is under 1000 though, maybe used...
the hpc1200 has a mmicrometer card... but again not under 1000... maybe used...

thats all i got off the top of my head.

Great. Thanks. I'll check them out.

Paul

[psehorne]

I should have qualified my question better.

I assume it is unlikely that there is a new machine with micrometers for less than $1000. My question would be better worded "Is there a machine with micrometers that is usually available used for less than $1000?"

[LocksmithArmy]

my boss tried to sell me a framon awhile back for 750...
i dont think ive ever seen a used hpc 1200 but they are only 1200-1600 new (depending on package) so used could very well be under 1000

[MBI]

my boss tried to sell me a framon awhile back for 750...
i dont think ive ever seen a used hpc 1200 but they are only 1200-1600 new (depending on package) so used could very well be under 1000

Wow, I need to start shopping at your supplier. I usually see the standard model Blitz 1200CMB for around $2400, although once or twice a year I see specials offered by some suppliers giving about a $400-$500 discount on them.

That standard model comes with two cutting wheels, two tip stops, 150 code cards and basic adjusting tools.
The Extreme Blitz 1200CMBX is around $400 more than the 1200CMB and includes an extra cutting wheel, 25 more cards, a calibration kit, tubular key cutting kit and HPC Codesource and masterkeying software.
They also make a base model 1200B with NO cutting wheels, cards or accessories which will save you about $300 off the price of the 1200CMB but without those parts it's not much use to someone just starting out.

I've seen used Blitz machines selling anywhere from $600 to $1800, although at the low end of the scale the machines I've seen were a bit rough, lacked the accessories and spare cutters and were usually the old version of the 1200 from before they made some upgrades to the machine. If you buy one of those old ones, I'd plan on sending it back to HPC to have them install the upgrades to bring it up to current specs. I forget what they charge to do that, but I seem to recall its in the ballpark of a couple hundred bucks.

HPC also makes the 1200PCH which is a punch machine. It's handy because it doesn't need electricity and it can use the same code cards as the other 1200-series machines, but it can't make angled cuts like the powered machines. I haven't priced those in a while, but I seem to recall they were in the ballpark of $1600-$1800 new. I've seen these going for under $1000 used, in good condition. I think this one is one of the more likely candidates to find in your price range.

If you decide to buy new be careful where you shop. Suggested list price is about $800-ish higher than the new prices I listed above. Some vendors actually try to get that much for them, so buyer beware.

[dls]

Just an idea, many years ago i was using an old Mancuna machine with out any form of guages etc pureley as a duplication tool as i got more into rekeying old obsolete lever locks for safes i started thinking about the possibility of fitting two modified digital calipers to the machine one on the x axis and one on the y axis. The plan was to measure up some keys and come up with a series of random bittings to cut from based on the depths and spacing of the originals. the beauty of this idea is that once the blanks are in the machine you just zero the calliper on the x axis so its a self calibrating system. Now i just do lever locks by eye

[psehorne]

... i started thinking about the possibility of fitting two modified digital calipers to the machine one on the x axis and one on the y axis.

I am considering that. My Model 200 has a micrometer for depth but not for spacing; so I really only need to add on micrometer or digital caliper. Foley-Belsaw has a micrometer available for spacing for only ~70 bucks, but I thought this to be a good time to look into upgrading to a different machine all together.

[psehorne]

Another need for an upgraded machine has arisen.

Last night for the first time I copied a dual-sided automotive key with my Model 200. Of course, the 200 doesn't easily accommodate dual-sided key, but the key did work, although with some friction, too much friction in fact. I finished it with some impressioning and filing, and it now works fine ( a transponder key BTW).

So my next question is "What is the least expensive key machine designed to handle dual-sided keys and having both depth and spacing micrometers?"

Are any of the units already mentioned candidates? HPC1200, Framon....

Thanks,
Paul

[Evan]

So my next question is "What is the least expensive key machine designed to handle dual-sided keys and having both depth and spacing micrometers?"

Are any of the units already mentioned candidates? HPC1200, Framon....

Thanks,
Paul

@psehorne:

You are seeking something at the level of an HPC 1200, or a Framon II or above...

To purchase a used machine with all of its code cards/accessories perfectly intact is a very rare thing...

It sounds to me like you are flirting with the idea of wanting such a machine -- either you need one or you don't and if you actually need one, then purchase a new machine and register it with the manufacturer... You don't your business being limited by whatever accessories didn't come with the used machine...

~~ Evan

[MBI]

So my next question is "What is the least expensive key machine designed to handle dual-sided keys and having both depth and spacing micrometers?"

Are any of the units already mentioned candidates? HPC1200, Framon....

Thanks,
Paul

Any of the HPC 1200 machines will do it, but the HPC 1200PCH punch machine is probably one of your lowest priced options. I don't have a Framon to give you an opinion there. You can look at a Pro-Lok Blue Punch or an A-1 Pak-a-Punch for less money, but they're a different kind of setup.

As Evan suggested above, if this is something you NEED then consider just buying one new. If it's just something you WANT then keep an eye out for a good deal on something used, but be patient because the type of thing you're looking for doesn't pop up every day.

Just remember the immortal words of Forrest Gump "Buying a used key machine is like a box of chocolates: you never know what you're gonna get."
Or... something like that. If I were buying a used machine, unless it's from someone I know and trust or is available for me to inspect before purchase, while figuring out what I'm willing to pay I would assume I was going to have to put some money into it to buy adjustment tools, accessories and a new cutter. If you don't end up needing to buy them separately then great, it's more of a bargain. But if you do, then you don't have a nasty surprise.

[psehorne]

As Evan suggested above, if this is something you NEED then consider just buying one new. If it's just something you WANT then keep an eye out for a good deal on something used, but be patient because the type of thing you're looking for doesn't pop up every day.

I am just a hobbyist.

... I would assume I was going to have to put some money into it to buy adjustment tools, accessories and a new cutter..

Yes, I know. I spent over a hundred dollars for accessories for my ~$50 Model 200.

Thanks for your advice, MBI and Evan.

Paul

[psehorne]

Being just a hobbyist, will I have a problem buying a key machine new?

Thanks,
Paul

[Evan]

Being just a hobbyist, will I have a problem buying a key machine new?

Thanks,
Paul

You shouldn't, HPC machines are commonplace in facilities management situations and it is rare that someone using said machine rises to the level of "locksmith" in skills and training...

~~ Evan

[psehorne]

I have located a used HPC 1200. The seller can't tell me exactly which model. Says all he knows is that it is a 1200. I can tell from the pics that it is not the PCH; I just don't know if it is a 1200CM or 1200CMB. I've asked him the age and am awaiting his email reply.

It supposedly has seen little use; so regardless of its age, it may be in good working condition.

He says it is "missing cutter wheel holder on top". I have looked at the exploded view in the PDF manual and I can't determine exactly what he is referring. But supposedly the missing item does not affect its performance.

It comes with approximately 180 cards, and the asking price is $950. I have not yet seen the unit other than in pics.

Since this is new territory for me, I would appreciate the benefit your collective experience. What questions should I ask? What should I look for? etc.

Thanks,
Paul