Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Stamping Keys

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Stamping Keys

Postby gswimfrk » 31 Aug 2011 22:03

Hi Guys!

So today I picked up my 187,627,893,464,529,792 keys for my facility :roll: ... Now I have to stamp and serialize them... :(

Is there any specific letters/numbering combinations I should use to determine the key, level, and location?

Thanks,

Ivan
gswimfrk
 
Posts: 99
Joined: 16 Aug 2010 20:55

Re: Stamping Keys

Postby Evan » 31 Aug 2011 23:34

@gswimfrk:

Check out this thread:

Master Key Systems

It discusses how master key systems work and describes the Standard Key Coding System...

Serializing a key is just stamping a unique identification number on the key that doesn't relate to what the key itself operates, it is meant to be a unique code to identify each separate key regardless of what each of those keys opens...

Stamping a blind code on the key can be more complicated...

The easiest way is to stamp the key symbol code (from the SKCS mentioned above) on the key...

However some organizations decide to use blind numerical code numbers to designate keys which do not correspond to building/room numbers in any way at all...

Ex: "100" "104" "300" "302" "400" "401" "500" "556" "600" "608" etc...

It is difficult to determine the hierarchy of a system using such blind codes as "100" is not implied to be any higher or lower in a system than say "300" or "500"...

Read the thread linked above about Master Keying Systems and if you have any questions, just ask them -- SKCS is fairly standard but there are a few other major ones out there including the way Best Access Systems codes it's master keying systems and I can discuss that if you are interested...

~~ Evan
Evan
 
Posts: 1489
Joined: 5 Apr 2010 17:09
Location: Rhode Island

Re: Stamping Keys

Postby Evan » 1 Sep 2011 0:42

Here is an example of a complex SKCS coded Level III Master Key System (not a real system):

Code: Select all
Sample: Three Level Master Keying System using the Total Position Progression method and two-step progression between different bittings with an ENG selective master key and special function depth master keys planned in...

GMK A 347230
ENG   341230

A-1  565452  A-5  565472     ENG-1  721452  ENG-5  721472     |     SKD-1  169452  SKD-5  169472
A-2  565454  A-6  565474     ENG-2  721454  ENG-6  721474     |     SKD-2  169454  SKD-6  169474
A-3  565456  A-7  565476     ENG-3  721456  ENG-7  721476     |     SKD-3  169456  SKD-7  169476
A-4  565458  A-8  565478     ENG-4  721458  ENG-8  721478     |     SKD-4  169458  SKD-8  169478


MK AA 767230                 MK AB 927230                 MK AC 587230                 MK AD 107230

AA-1  767452  AA-9   767492  AB-1  927452  AB-9   927492  AC-1  587452  AC-9   587492  AD-1  107452  AD-9   107492
AA-2  767454  AA-10  767494  AB-2  927454  AB-10  927494  AC-2  587454  AC-10  587494  AD-2  107454  AD-10  107494
AA-3  767456  AA-11  767496  AB-3  927456  AB-11  927496  AC-3  587456  AC-11  587496  AD-3  107456  AD-11  107496
AA-4  767458  AA-12  767498  AB-4  927458  AB-12  927498  AC-4  587458  AC-12  587498  AD-4  107458  AD-12  107498
AA-5  767472  AA-13  767412  AB-5  927472  AB-13  927412  AC-5  587472  AC-13  587412  AD-5  107472  AD-13  107412
AA-6  767474  AA-14  767414  AB-6  927474  AB-14  927414  AC-6  587474  AC-14  587414  AD-6  107474  AD-14  107414
AA-7  767476  AA-15  767416  AB-7  927476  AB-15  927416  AC-7  587476  AC-15  587416  AD-7  107476  AD-15  107416
AA-8  767478  AA-16  767418  AB-8  927478  AB-16  927418  AC-8  587478  AC-16  587418  AD-8  107478  AD-16  107418



Special key  341452  Stairwell doors all levels
Special key  341454  Electrical rooms all levels
Special key  341456  HVAC rooms all levels
Special key  341458  Telephone rooms all levels
Special key  341472  IT closets all levels
Special key  341474  Men's restrooms all levels
Special key  341476  Women's restrooms all levels
Special key  341478  Janitorial closets all levels


As you can see this system includes such features as SKD combinations reserved from inception, direct change keys under the grandmaster key, an "ENG" selective master key which has it's own unique change keys under it, standard master key groups with change keys like any system and then some special "depth master" keys which can be used to allow access to doors in a different pattern than normal...

In a real system you would want to assign the change keys randomly under each master key rather than in numerical order of progression like I have done above to make it easier to understand the patterns...

~~ Evan
Evan
 
Posts: 1489
Joined: 5 Apr 2010 17:09
Location: Rhode Island

Re: Stamping Keys

Postby gswimfrk » 4 Sep 2011 0:20

Cool! Thanks!!! Should I take precaution as to stamping apartment unit # on keys... should I avoid that?

Thanks,

Ivan
gswimfrk
 
Posts: 99
Joined: 16 Aug 2010 20:55

Re: Stamping Keys

Postby Evan » 4 Sep 2011 1:09

gswimfrk wrote:Cool! Thanks!!! Should I take precaution as to stamping apartment unit # on keys... should I avoid that?

Thanks,

Ivan


No... DO NOT STAMP room numbers on keys...

That is the worst possible thing to do, if the keys are lost near the premises they operate it is like a treasure map for the person who finds them...

Create a bitting list like the one in my post above...

Assign each bitting in the system a blind code number...

For a simple two-level system your codes would be:

1AA, 2AA, 3AA, 4AA, 5AA, 6AA, 7AA, 8AA, 9AA, 10AA, etc...

Those identifiers would be stamped on the key in addition to the serialized number...

~~ Evan
Evan
 
Posts: 1489
Joined: 5 Apr 2010 17:09
Location: Rhode Island

Re: Stamping Keys

Postby David Swearingen » 27 Mar 2012 21:25

Evan, I'd be interested in any information you have specific to Best coding.
We are all born as originals. Why do so many of us die as copies?
David Swearingen
 
Posts: 28
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 6:38
Location: Jacksonville, Florida

Re: Stamping Keys

Postby Evan » 3 Apr 2012 12:41

David Swearingen wrote:Evan, I'd be interested in any information you have specific to Best coding.


@David Swearingen:

Best has its own way of identifying keys in the hierarchy of their keying systems...

Top Master Key = "Grandmaster" Or as stamped on the keys: GM - xxxx
Where "xxxx" is some identification code not used elsewhere in the system except on the control key...

Control Key = "Control" Or as stamped on the keys: C - xxxx

How Best defines the Hierarchy below the top master key depends on the system and whether the keying system was defined using Letters or Numbers to identify the level of keys beneath the "Grandmaster"/TMK...

Using letters:

Ex. "H" The master key would be stamped M-H

Master key groups below "H" would have a number suffixed to the Master Key Letter:

"H1", "H2", "H3", etc stamped on the keys as S M - H1, S M - H2, S M - H3, etc...

Individual keys withing those groups would be prefixed with their "sub-master" group identification then their number:

H1-32, H1-1, H2-22, H2-64, H3-10, etc...

The fact that you have a "Master Key" marked "H" in your system implies that it is the 8th key of that level in the system and that at least 7 others exist (or were planned for in the system design) even if they are not divided up into sub-groups at all or may have more or less sub-groups than the "H" key has...

Using numbers:

Ex. "2" The master key would be stamped M-2

Master key groups below "2" would have a letter suffixed to the Master Key Number:

"2A", "2B", "2C", etc stamped on the keys as S M - 2A, S M - 2B, S M - 2C, etc...

Individual keys withing those groups would be prefixed with their "sub-master" group identification then their number:

2A-1, 2A-32, 2B-18, 2B-64, 2C-14, etc...

The fact that you have a "Master Key" marked "2" in your system implies that it is the 2nd key of that level in the system and that at least 1 other exists (or was planned for in the system design) even if they are not divided up into sub-groups at all or may have more or less sub-groups than the "2" key has...

Let's also consider a "Master Key" which has no sub-groups underneath it...

Using Numbers: "M-1" and the change keys would be 1-1. 1-4, 1-32, etc...
Using Letters: "M-F" and the change keys would be: F-2, F-8, F-64, etc...

The information explained above refers to keying systems designed and furnished by Best Access Systems... If you see a Best SFIC key with SKCS markings on it, that system was designed and keyed in the field by someone not following Best protocols...

Why would you use letters or numbers to identify the level of keys directly below the Grandmaster: Letters are ideal for smaller systems with less than 23 groups at that level planned... Numbers allows for more groups...

If you see Best marked keys in a system which are:

30F-64 which is the highest numbered stamped key,
what does that tell you about the system ?

That there are 30 groups directly below the Grandmaster
that were designed for and/or deployed, that the 30th
group is divided into 6 sub-groups of 64 possible change keys...

T8-32 which is the highest numbered stamped key,
what does that tell you about the system ?

That there are 17 groups directly below the Grandmaster
(remember than using I, O or Q is discouraged because
those letters are easily misread as either 1 or zero)
that were designed for and/or deployed, that the 17th
group is divided into 8 sub-groups of 32 possible change keys...

~~ Evan
Evan
 
Posts: 1489
Joined: 5 Apr 2010 17:09
Location: Rhode Island


Return to Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests