Bilock question

[FarmerFreak]

I'm confused.

It says on Bilocks website http://bilock.com/pickbumpproof.html that their locks are "Pick Proof."

But I picked four of them tonight in one sitting, in front three witnesses.


So my question is. What is it that makes these locks pick proof

Clearly there is something about their design that is suppose to prevent me from being able to pick them. I just can't figure out what it is that's suppose to do that.

[averagejoe]

Somebody is a beast...

[femurat]

sorry, I don't know the answer, maybe somebody from the factory does

[lock2006]

sorry, I don't know the answer, maybe somebody from the factory does

I agree with you femurat,i remember they used to say that medeco were pick proof too
but that change
i know some guys that works at the local hardware store
they tell me Medeco locks are pick proof,when i tell them no they are not
they don't agree.

[Squelchtone]

Well played sir.

+5

Squelchtone

[FarmerFreak]

Thought I would throw out a few facts regarding my experiences with Bilocks locks.

1. I have never seen a Bilock key other than pictures online. And more specifically, I have never seen any pictures of the keys that work any of the Bilocks that I picked. Nor was I given any information as to the bitting of said locks.

2. Every Bilock that I have had my picks in. I have successfully picked.

3. None of them were picked in under 20 minutes the first time. Oddly the first one I touched I picked the fastest. ...Beginners luck!? That lock was picked from start to finish in 24 minutes.

4. They were all picked while clamped in a vice. Which is how I practice. In most cases, to me, picking a lock in a vice feels the same as picking a lock installed on a door.

[EmCee]

'Pick proof', 'Bump proof', 'Snap proof'...in my opinion none of these terms should be used by anyone, and certainly not by manufacturers or suppliers of the products. Wild claims that can be proved false damage reputations and make it more likely that customers will disbelieve other and future claims - therefore the claim does not even work from a PR/advertising point of view. More, if a customer has a break-in where the lock was picked, bumped or snapped, then the possibility of legal action arises.

The most that can, and the most that should, be said, is that the locks are 'pick- and/or bump- and/or snap-resistant'. In the real world (which in no way devalues Farmer Freak's success and skill), these terms are just as good in advertising claims, since a lock that resists such attacks for more than around 3 mins would be a deterrent in the majority of cases (where the time/opportunity/motivation assessment is at the low end of the scale).

Cheers...

[MrScruff]

Their website just screams "yes, we are awesome! Lalalalala can't hear you! Still awesome!" What I find most interesting is that the American website is the only place that says "pick proof". According to both Wikipedia and the company's Australian website they're just "pick resistant". Maybe whoever put the American site together just thought "pick proof" and "pick resistant" were synonymous.

The next logical step is of course to try getting an all-expenses paid trip to demonstrate in person.

[datagram]

fap

[Rickthepick]

Mad skillz

[aussielocky]

Without wishing to detract from your achievement, (just an observation for anyone picking Bilock and similar locks). Bilocks are very often master keyed, sometimes very heavily masterkeyed and each additional key that passes a lock reduces the security of that lock by a considerable amount.

So if we come to bilock and the design of the pins, some of the pins used in master keyed locks have either multiple holes, or elongated holes to allow the master keying to function, also pins for master keying tend to loose their anti-pick mechanisms by default. As a result I would be tempted to tear down these cylinders if I had picked them to check and see just how they are keyed up.

[Squelchtone]

Without wishing to detract from your achievement, (just an observation for anyone picking Bilock and similar locks). Bilocks are very often master keyed, sometimes very heavily masterkeyed and each additional key that passes a lock reduces the security of that lock by a considerable amount.

So if we come to bilock and the design of the pins, some of the pins used in master keyed locks have either multiple holes, or elongated holes to allow the master keying to function, also pins for master keying tend to loose their anti-pick mechanisms by default. As a result I would be tempted to tear down these cylinders if I had picked them to check and see just how they are keyed up.

I know what you're saying/getting at.. but I saw Farmer Freak at DEFCON, and while casually talking to me and making eye contact, he and I were standing in the lock pick village entrance, at a table that had a vice on it and a Medeco mortise cylinder clamped in a vice. He casually picked the 6 pin Medeco in front of me in under 2 minutes, and didn't make a fuss about it, so I know his skill as a picker are out of this world, I'm a noob compared to what he can do.

Squelchtone

[aussielocky]

I'm not doubting the OP's skill, my point was aimed at those that follow - anyone picking Bilock should really take a careful look at the keying of the lock in question, before assuming that the lock design is flawed / substandard etc.

I have no axe to grind here, I have assembled lots of Bilock in the past but have no commercial interest in it today.

[FarmerFreak]

aussielocky, you are correct in that a heavily masterkeyed bilock will be really really easy to pick.

As for the locks above. Two of them have all 12 pins and are not masterkeyed at all. One of them has 12 pins and two of them are master pins. The other one only has 8 pins in it, I don't care to take it apart and find out. As it is far less significant than the other three.

He casually picked the 6 pin Medeco in front of me in under 2 minutes

You might be exaggerating my time a little, I didn't think I picked any that fast. ...Unless it was one that I picked just before you got there, turned it back and re-picked it with all the angles previously set.

[FarmerFreak]

anyone picking Bilock should really take a careful look at the keying of the lock in question, before assuming that the lock design is flawed / substandard etc.

I'm not saying that the lock is flawed or even substandard. The design is pretty cool.

It's their advertising that is horribly flawed and a blatant misleading lie. At least that's how I interpret their advertising (possibly because I can pick them blind ).

As has been pointed out earlier. It's one thing to say that a lock is pick resistant, and a completely different thing to say that it is entirely pick proof. It's those words that strike a nerve with a lot of people.