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A new pickers question

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

A new pickers question

Postby Cman22 » 26 Sep 2004 20:02

I actually don't know if I'm considered a new picker still but I consider myself one. My new question is:

Are doorknob locks as easy to pick as a deadbolt? :?:
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Re: A new pickers question

Postby logosys » 26 Sep 2004 20:15

Cman22 wrote:I actually don't know if I'm considered a new picker still but I consider myself one. My new question is:

Are doorknob locks as easy to pick as a deadbolt? :?:


Yes and no. The locking mechanism is generally the same, you just have to hold the doorknob as well as the tension wrench. Seeing as I pick most of my locks in-hand, I haven't run into much of a problem with this issue, but I've heard it can be a pain in the butthole...
-Logo

I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Re: A new pickers question

Postby logosys » 26 Sep 2004 20:18

Are you trying to pick your front door again? If so, that can be described in two words: BAD IDEA.

My best advice would be to get a Kwikset or Schlage cylinder, depending on how good you think you are. get a "double cylinder deadbold" You get two locks for the price of one, and you'll really get some extra practice.

Pick a few locks lots of times and pick lots of locks a few times.
-Logo

I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.
--Thomas Jefferson
logosys
 
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004 12:34
Location: Texas

Postby Romstar » 26 Sep 2004 20:20

Heh, now there is a question alright. :twisted:

How about we look at a common Kwikset KIK (Key in Knob) and a Kwikset deadbolt.

The Kwikset KIK commonly uses a plastic cylinder, and as such can really make a mess for trying to feel anything with a pin by pin method. However, because the tolerances are so crappy when you use plastic, you can often rake them in no time.

The deadbolts on the other hand are brass, and despite their terrible tolerances they provide much more feedback.

On the other hand, if you were to look at Schlage products, you would find the KIK and deadbolts are very similar due in part to their better construction, and tighter tolerences.

Then, we get to SFIC, or Small Format Interchangable Core.
With these types of locks, the core same style core is used in both the knobset, and the the deadbolt. Brands include, Best, Falcon, Schlage and others. They are easily identifiable by their unique shape. The keyway will appear to be in a figure "8" construction. These locks are much more difficult to pick because of their use of both a normal key, and a control key. Further, because they are commonly used in large installations such as schools, hospitals, office buildings and other such instances they are almost always masterkeyed.

You would think that all the extra shear lines would aide in picking these locks, but you would be wrong. Because the control key turns one way, and the normal keys turn the other way, the extra shearlines can get mixed up, and prevent you picking them.

All in all, you may find that Knobsets are often times just as difficult as a deadbolt. All of this depends on the make, and quality of the lockset in question.

Happy picking,
Romstar
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Postby WhiteHat » 26 Sep 2004 20:24

did you say _plastic_ cylinder?

*imagines someone melting through the lock with a magnifying glass on a hot day*
Oh look! it's 2016!
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Postby Romstar » 26 Sep 2004 21:07

WhiteHat wrote:did you say _plastic_ cylinder?

*imagines someone melting through the lock with a magnifying glass on a hot day*



Yeah, that's what I said. I don't know if it's ALL of them, but a startling percentage use the plastic cylinder.

Once you get the knob off, the cylinder itself is made of thermoplastic. It has brass pins, bronze springs, and a cheap folded metal plate at the top. The plug is commonly cheap plated brass.

Heat the plug up, and it will melt right through the cylinder.

Nasty stuff.
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Postby Chucklz » 26 Sep 2004 21:13

The following question is analagous "Is it harder to drive a red or blue car?" The answer... "it depends". How the door is situated can make for a challenge. As a hobby picker, the handful of lockouts i did this summer were so different from picking from a chair, you will be very supprized. For example, If you favor a long tension tool, you may find the door frame suddenly is *just* close enough to be annoying.

Romstar: I've yet to see a plastic cylinder Kwikset in the States. However, Weisers here have plastic cylinders. I wonder what silly game Black and Decker is playing.
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Postby Romstar » 26 Sep 2004 21:20

Okay, so there we go.

No plastic cylinders in Kwiksets in the State. Only the Weisers. Weisers here also have plastic cylinders.

Also, as I have said, many Kwiksets here in Canada as well.

Black and Decker playing games? I find that difficult to believe. :twisted:

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Postby Murph » 27 Sep 2004 5:43

I have seen a couple plastic cylinders in the past, but right now there are none available for me to pick. Another addition to my lock wish list.
I don't work, I participate.
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Postby silent » 27 Sep 2004 7:01

Do you know the year Weiser made plastic cylinders? Ive got about 8 deadbolts and Ive taken apart 6 :(. None of them are plastic but theyr fairly old). Im thinking about high power aersol cleaners being sprayed into the locks, it would be a mess.
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Postby 32768 » 27 Sep 2004 9:53

Romstar wrote:You would think that all the extra shear lines would aide in picking these locks, but you would be wrong. Because the control key turns one way, and the normal keys turn the other way, the extra shearlines can get mixed up, and prevent you picking them.


The extra shearline can definitely be a pain, but in my experience the control key turns the same direction as the change or master key. The control has to turn clockwise 15 or 20 degrees to retract the little arm dealie (there's nothing like the correct terminology), and the installations I've seen all turn clockwise to unlock. Maybe it's possible to set up the lockset to unlock when the change key is turned counterclockwise? Is this something you can set when you install the lock?
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