Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Selecting the pick

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Selecting the pick

Postby Eagerpicker » 23 Sep 2004 9:59

My fellow pickers, this doesn't seem to be a much-discussed topic, but please point me to related threads that I apparently couldn't find myself.

My question: when facing a new lock, a new cylinder, a new keyway -- how do you all go about selecting the proper pick for the job?

I've spent hours on one cylinder fumbling with all kinds of rakes that did nothing whatsoever in the way of opening the thing, then I tried a range of half diamond picks and hooks. Finally, the penultimate pick I had left turned out to be the one that worked: a medium to short, shallow hook. Of course I reached for this one first when I started on the next lock -- to no avail. That cylinder needed a diamond-hook pick and then, for the pins in the back, a very very long hook.

So... how do you do it? Is it intuition, experience? Or do you, like me, just try a whole bunch of picks, again and again?

As a sub-question: how do you choose the proper rake for the job? I have yet to find rakes to be very effective, strangely; they're supposed to be the "quick and easy alternative"...
Eagerpicker
 
Posts: 175
Joined: 24 Sep 2003 12:55
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

Postby Exodus5000 » 23 Sep 2004 10:07

In my mind, you should be able to open any lock you come accross with either a short hook or a half diamond. The style of pick you use only changes the feeling of feedback you get.

I really don't rake locks a whole lot. When I do I just reach for the C rake, or snake rake.
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
Exodus5000
 
Posts: 952
Joined: 6 Apr 2004 23:57
Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, USA

Postby Eagerpicker » 23 Sep 2004 10:09

Exodus5000 wrote:In my mind, you should be able to open any lock you come accross with either a short hook or a half diamond.


What about very high-setting pins, then? No short hook or half diamond will be able to set those without messing up the rest of the pin stack, right?
Eagerpicker
 
Posts: 175
Joined: 24 Sep 2003 12:55
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

Postby Exodus5000 » 23 Sep 2004 10:53

High/low pin stack configurations are of course very difficult, but I wouldn't say they would be impossible with a short hook (my pref.) Imediately after saying that, i'll add that there are tools designed to make it easier on you. A long hook for instance if the keyway allows it.

Crafty work with your tension wrench can be just as powerful of a technique too. Try to teach your hands to use even lighter tension when your pick is moving across pins that are not set, while using a slightly greater amount of tension when your pick is moving across already set pins. The fluxuations in the amount of tension used is not a lot at all, but it can be a great asset. Eventually your hands will do it without you having to think about it.

Example: Lets say you have a lock wth two pin stacks. First pin stack sets low, second pin stack sets high. Set the first pin, increase tension so that you don't breach the pin stack, move your pick back to the second pin stack and lighten on the tension slightly and raise your pick.

I can personaly attest to this technique becuase i've repinned a few Arrow locks (6 pins) into the most extreme high/low pin stack configurations I could possibly make, and with a little practice you'll do just fine.
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
Exodus5000
 
Posts: 952
Joined: 6 Apr 2004 23:57
Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, USA

Postby Eagerpicker » 23 Sep 2004 11:05

Exodus500: thanks for your input! As we speak, I am actually going over the MIT guide's exercises again, that are designed to hone the sense of touch and increase pick and torque tool dexterity.
Eagerpicker
 
Posts: 175
Joined: 24 Sep 2003 12:55
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

Postby S3rratedSp00L » 23 Sep 2004 20:38

To keep along story short, select the pick that does what you think you need to do to open the lock! If you can't get that pesky back pin with a rake, but you think a hook will do it, then select a hook! If that doesn't work, then try something else. If you are familiar with the lock, then you probably already know what works best for you. If the lock is new to you, then go with your gut and trial and error after that until you find what you like! You may be surprised when you find that a certain rake works beautifully on a lock, but other picks take a long time.

If you want to really get intimate with the lock (hehe, careful now!) then use a hook!

I also find that some shapes do certain things extremely well, and deforest can be one of those shapes. I use it to wedge a back pin up when necessary! Then I switch back to a more normal hook, keep using the deforest or whatever. A half diamond can sometimes wedge a pin up in a similar way. Every shape has it's advantages, so use them as needed!

Most importantly, EXPERIMENT! You won't know how to get the most use out of your picks unless you try new things and see what works, and what doesn't. Sometimes something that doesn't work well on one lock will pop other locks open in seconds! There are a lot of techniques, and technique is important for selecting your pick. :)


hehe, so much for keeping a long story short. :)
S3rratedSp00L
 
Posts: 196
Joined: 20 Jul 2004 12:28
Location: Bay Area, Northern California

Postby CaptHook » 23 Sep 2004 21:22

In general, on pin tumblers, I reach for a short hook no matter what. If I find the lock is warded in such a way I cant get to the pins, I have thinner euro style hooks and a couple deforrest style picks I resort to.
Wafer locks, I almost always go for a snake, if it doesnt want to work for me, a half diamond is next in line. Double wafers, I reach for a ball variation depending on the size of the keyway (as to half, single, double etc).
I usually dont try and rake pin tumblers (with a snake etc) unless Im playing around/experimenting.
Chuck
Did you hear something click?

Image
User avatar
CaptHook
 
Posts: 705
Joined: 4 Apr 2004 19:26
Location: Portland, OR

Postby Chucklz » 23 Sep 2004 22:47

If I just want to open the lock, ie someones locked themselves out of their apartment, its bogota rake first. With enough practice and creative tension play, I can open up almost everything with one in less than 2 minutes. I use a combination raking/jiggling motion.
Chucklz
 
Posts: 3097
Joined: 4 Nov 2003 17:58
Location: Philadelphia

Postby Eagerpicker » 24 Sep 2004 5:38

Thanks for your comments, guys. I just noticed today's my LP101 anniversary. I've been lockpicking frequently and consistently for as long, and yesterday I opened the lock on my back door -- my second Police Security Certificate lock (DOM, albeit not the dimple kind but regular key cut kind). So there is progress, and what's more important, there's a lot of fun! Like Serrated says, "EXPERIMENT", well, that's what I do very often. Hence this thread: I am curious to hear how everyone goes about selecting the right pick for the job.

Anyway, it's been a good year lockpicking wise, I'm sure I'll stick around some more.

Thanks to all who share their experience and knowledge. Time on LP101 is time well-spent. :D

EP
Eagerpicker
 
Posts: 175
Joined: 24 Sep 2003 12:55
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

Postby Eagerpicker » 27 Sep 2004 10:05

Doesn't anyone else want to share their method? I'm still curious and I can't imagine I'm the only one. :)
Eagerpicker
 
Posts: 175
Joined: 24 Sep 2003 12:55
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

Postby davidgjr » 27 Sep 2004 10:15

I use chucklz method with the rake, and have had pretty good success.
davidgjr
 
Posts: 61
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 7:06
Location: Gulfport, MS

Postby Romstar » 27 Sep 2004 10:26

In many cases, I will probe a lock using a sharp angled probe.

This probe is not a pick. It is inserted fully into the lock, and lifted to the top. It is then withdrawn slowly until the rear most pin begins to fall.
As the pin stack begins to fall, the probe may find the shear line between the pins, the probe is then pushed forward again as far as it can go. This will show how high or low the bottom pin is.

If a shear line cannont be found, this means it as a deeper pin, and therefore a deeper cut.

This process continues until all pin stacks have been probed.

Using a charting method (You can do it in your head after a while) you can get an idea of the shape of the key. This will allow you to choose a proper snake pick, or choose to engage in idividual picking.

You choice of individual picks depends on the shape of the biting, and your preference in pick selection and use.

The hook, and deforest style allow you to get under deep pins in the middle to lift shallow pins at the rear. The diamond allows you to slide under all the pins, and manipulate the more shallow biting types.

I hope this has been some help to you.
Romstar
Image
Romstar
 
Posts: 2823
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 3:13
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby scrapheap » 27 Sep 2004 10:26

As I only have a small collection of picks at the moment I tend to opt for the half diamond, though sometimes if in a hurry I will use the snake and rake the lock. I find that being in the UK the hook I have is a little too large to easily use in most locks, but I plan to make a smaller one in the near future.
scrapheap
 
Posts: 21
Joined: 22 Sep 2004 7:27

Postby Murph » 27 Sep 2004 11:56

I always select my small hook first, if that doesn't work, then I'll go after it with a small diamond, if that doesn't work, I try telepathic powers and will the bugger open <just teasing on that last blurb>. Seriously, small hook first and pin pick, then I try pin picking with the small diamond.
I don't work, I participate.
Murph
 
Posts: 149
Joined: 22 Jul 2004 18:28
Location: Maryland, U.S.

Postby WhiteCastle966z » 4 Dec 2004 3:52

I have most sucess with a hook (and also a diamond) on pin tumblers. Wafer locks I'd go with a ball, but I also have like using the snake. While I don't do that much raking, if I do, it's gonna be a simple snake rake (none of the five billion crazy shaped ones as seen in some south ord kits, but sometimes I play around with those).
WhiteCastle966z
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 20:58


Return to Got Questions? - Ask Beginner Hobby Lockpicking Questions Here

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests