Foley-Belsaw or Ashworth?

[viking84]

I am trying to decide now whether to do my certification at either trade college and wanted to get opinions on what you all think? Ashworth sent me a back-to-school promo for the Locksmith certification for $399 compared to the $921 that it originally costs? They provided with with diploma certificate and key-making machine as graduation gift. Just curious if anyone went through this program? Thanks!

[viking84]

Disregard. I called Ashworth and they said the deal expires today. I'm going with Foley! Ashworth also sounded a little fishy. They told me I can pay 50 a month and pay no interest. I don't believe it one bit.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Yeah Foley's manuals are fairly decent. I got to look at them about 6 months ago and it was basic but sufficient. It'll get you started, you'll have to continue to progress, however, if you want to become a locksmith.

[viking84]

Yeah Foley's manuals are fairly decent. I got to look at them about 6 months ago and it was basic but sufficient. It'll get you started, you'll have to continue to progress, however, if you want to become a locksmith.

Confederate,

Did you go through the program at FB? I think that will probably be a better deal and it seems like they have a better reputation in the locksmith field!

JC

[Hollywoodpick]

You do not need to do any of them the locksmith DVD course you can buy on e-bay is much better then any of the course you listed.

As for certification a lot of talk is going on about this. Why get a certification when no one will ever ask you if you have one? Most states do not require you to have one and the ones that do will not accept a Foley-Belsaw OR Ashworth certification and most of the so called school certification they give you is not even looked at as any worth.

If you are going to get certification get it from a good place after learning something you can not easy teach your self with watching DVDs.

I showed my step son how to pick locks, re-key locks and open cars in under two hours. He was able to unlock all my practice locks and unlock 4 of our home doors right after the two hours of me showing him things and with the right tools he can open just about any car on the road in no time.

Buy some good locksmith DVDs and spend the rest of the money on the tools. With the right tools you can do a lot of things very fast things they will never teach you at the schools you posted about.
I have the FB course books i will sell them to anyone for $100 that wants them their certification is worthless and not needed.

I have learned more by reading posts in locksmith websites and the DVDs then from any of the locksmith books. Most of the books are outdated and do not cover any of the newer lock bypass tools or how to use them.

The only good books to buy are the ones from locksmith on a special topic you are wanting to learn more on like opening safes, or Car transponders and so on.
If you want a good book buy the complete locks and locksmithing book it covers more then all of the FB course books but the DVDs are still much better as you see what is going on live.

I started this year and i am working running my own business and doing ok in a slow town this time of year but i am getting calls a few times a week every week and making more then if i had a normal 40 hour a week job and i am working less then 5 to 6 hours a week but i am good at marketing my business that is as big one marketing yourself to get jobs.

certification can be good for special topics but a overall certification from a place that dose not teach you all the new things is not going to do much good.
The FB course books do not cover 95% of what i get called out for so far. even today i used a special tool that is not in any of the books and with out it i would of not got in and not got paid on a 2011 dead locked car.

If you are looking to get a job working for someone look at it this way.
Is the course you take going to teach you how to read the locks of a newer car and make a transponder key and remote using the newer equipment people are using for this.?
Is the course going to teach you how to unlock most cars on the road fast even dead locked ones?
Is the course going to teach you how to open a locked home door if you can not pick it and show you how to use the best tools to get the job done? the FB course books do not cover any of this and this is something you will a lot of calls for.
Anyone can drill a lock that can be learned in no time you just need the right drill and bits.
Is the course going to teach you code cutting on newer coumputer code cutters a lot of places have moved to.
Is the course going to show you how to bypass the Kwikset smart key locks they are one of the most sold locks people buy for them self at hardware stores and the smart key lock is not a normal door lock and is super hard to pick most people can not pick them or do other things that work on other style of locks? It comes down to the right tools and 15 min of training on them.
Are they going to teach you how to install and use the newer elc locks and access key pads a lot of places are moving over to?
Are they going to teach you how to install exit devices in a business.
What about safes? are they teaching you current info or old outdated stuff that will slow you down. Do they teach you how to open many Sentry safes with in a few mins or even seconds or do they show you the long way around taking a hour or more.

If the course you are looking at dose not teach most of this then who is going to hire you this is what you will be doing everyday?

The hardest thing for me is remembering all the key names and types of keys.

Also i spent a lot of money on some tools that are out dated i will never use i need to try and sell as newer better ones are out i now have. Old outdated books make you spend money on old outdated tools you do not need.

Just my point of view. But i am a good self learner..

[skeletor]

I just recently started the Ashworth College Locksmithing program.

It appears that it has been revised, and the texts are now "Locksmithing" by Bill Phillips, and "The Complete Book of Locks and Locksmithing".

The Ashworth manuals are the tests and projects that are suggested for the student to partake in.

The tools and parts are very minimal, and it appears you get an ILCO Key Machine once graduated and the course has been 100% paid for.

In my opinion, this is ok for a beginning primer course, but there are better courses out there. I like what I have seen with The Locksmith Video School, and plan on buying that course once I am finished with the Ashworth course.

From seeing an old version of the Foley Belsaw course my grandmother took back in the 80's, I would assume it to superior to the Ashworth course, as it seemed to focus a lot more on impressioning, and had more practical exercises and lessons.

Don't get me wrong, I feel that you can learn things from Ashworth, but after seeing the pdf's of the penn foster course, as well as the FB courses, I think there are better courses out there for your money. I may even give the FB course a try down the road myself.

Just my 2 cents worth...

[skeletor]

Also...

In regards to schools like Ashworth, Penn Foster, Foley Belsaw, I think many people miss the point. Rarely will any school of any type get a person all of the skills, certifications, and promises of employment...

The most important thing to remember is that you have to get a start somewhere, and basic training always precedes advanced training. Not everyone will be welcomed with open arms into the local good old boys locksmith community, but at least those who enroll and take a basic course has shwoen that they have an interest to learn the trade.

Like may other professions, Locksmiths are sometimes exclusive, jealous, secretive, and do not want to bring up their own eventual competetion.

In my opinion, I would always hire someone who has taken the initiative to get some basic knowledge and training under their belts, and these schools do a decent job of teaching beginners.

Skeletor

[John Grey]

I took the FB course well over 20+ years back so you can see that they have been around for quite awhile. However When I did take it most of the material even then was somewhat dated. I also went to a local community college and they had exactly what I had hoped for. Many issues were not touched upon; even though they had become standardized.
There are SO many new concepts, and complexities on the market today that (IMO) some thinking should go into what course you take. If you understand most of the basics I would recommend that you further sub-divide what and who you are going to be working for. Automobile locks can be a whole world in itself. so can safes, commercial alarms/doors and commercial installation. Residential lock-smithing is mostly covered by many "big-box" stores and the market in many areas is slim.
Many lock-smiths with years of background will eventually pick an area that they specialize for several different reasons; most of them financial. The level of start up capital will limit what they may pursue and after a time they may find a niche. It takes a great deal of time, money, continued equipment upgrades, etc to follow a "general area. Safes alone can demand many tens of thousands of dollars in equipment, training, and "intra-product servicing" (welding, etc).
I would not "talk down FB because I don't know what they offer these days. but this field can be vast. A local technical school or college will have a very up to date curriculum. In my opinion that is vital if you have a basic background and want professional training. I also believe that another individual showing you idiosyncrasies and the "small things" is a very good idea becasue one cannot gain all the nuisances from reading and working alone to achieve an understanding of some of the "most efficient" methods to do certain things.
I was very lucky becasue I started by what would be called an "apprenticeship" - working with a much older fellow. If you DO have an idea what is most interesting to you (commercial, residential, auto, safes, etc) I believe you can make good money by focusing on a specific area. many shops do a good job trying to work on most everything yet competition with car dealerships for automobiles and big-box stores for residential work sometimes depletes their moan power reserve for a job that will pay less than a safe (for instance) that few will want to work on.

So it's not so much that FB or their competition is better or worse; I believe that you alone must look at your interests and desire to professionalize prior to putting in the time. Generalizing is great if you feel that "you need to start somewhere" but IF your goal is to work and make a livable wage, focusing your efforts may be productive if it's continually in the forefront of your education. Where I worked we gave up much residential except for emergencies & specialties and rarely worked on automobiles as we had too much competition from dealerships. I encourage you to look at 'the big picture" and where you live, prior to spending more and more on educational materials that are either dated or you already understand. Many, many tools didn't exist even 20 years ago, many car and trucks didn't have side air-bags. A single commercial account could be a year's salary. This business changes fairly fast, but when it does, the changes stay in place longer.

[Warbs87]

I recently took the Ashworth course. My opinion is it was alright. I had no background in locksmithing. So was a pretty good starting point. It helped me gain a fair bi of knowledge for various different things within the trade. I could have found most things online but if I did that I would have missed a few of the parts altogether. So was worth the money in my books. I was able to write it off for income tax and get a student deal for my internet & golf membership. I almost made money doing all that and getting a key duplicating machine after I completed the course.

My plan was to start a small mobile locksmith business within my community of 2500 people. Its just a part time job but something that was needed as there isn't another locksmith within an hour radius. This course did enough to get me started. Google is my best friend along with this site now for different tips and tricks.

The course is good for someone with no knowledge in the trade, anyone with experience would think it was a waste of time. Since the course I have been working for about 5 months and experience is the best teacher as every job you run into different obstacles and hurdles to figure out.

Tools that come with the course are minimal, 2 practice locks, small kwikset pinning kit, 4 lock picks & a Hudson key duplicating machine. Not really enough to do any type of business within the trade but good for teaching I guess. Since then I have purchased a code cutting machine and lots of various other tools and such.

The material in the course is a little dated but for the price it isn't too bad.

I don't require certification in Manitoba Canada but some of the suppliers I use require it in order to get an account with them. The Ashworth Diploma suffices that part of it.

If anyone has any questions about the course, let me know.

[smokingman]

You really should get some type of certification that you can show potential employers and trade suppliers.
I cannot recommend one school over the other, since I only took training from one
and do not know the material the others teach.
It helped me get my fist employment as a lockie, and it gave me a form of identification to show suppliers .
Many suppliers will not sell to you if you cannot prove you ar a legit member of the trade.
There was a hardware store in my town that sold many locksmithing tools but most people did not know this as it was kept secret among locksmiths and they would ask for
some type of locksmiths trade related
ID if you asked for those type tools specific to the trade such as picks, bypass tools and so forth.
Some online suppliers are the same way.
BTW, I took the Belsaw ( no Foley back then ) course and it taught me enough to get my fist lockie job.
My potential employer asked to see my school materials , so I brought them to him and he asked me to perform a couple of tasks common to the average workload there, and was satisfied that I knew enough to start working without having to hold my hand, and learn more as time passed.
But this was in the early 80's. I do not know what things F/B teaches now.