Key with two levels of pins?

[Daggers]

http://www.locksmithcentral.net/images/PrimusKey2.gif

In the picture of the key above where it says "Factory side cut combinations provide...blah blah blah" the part that the text points to, what part in the lock does it move? are there any pictures to help illustrate, such as cutaways? i looked on google but the cutaways are indecipherable to me. The mental picture i get in my head is imagine this: looking at the top of a plug and seeing the holes where the pins go and right next to them, parallel, is another set of holes for the pins that the bottom part of the key moves (finger pins?). i found this site http://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=5445 that seems to be talking about methods to pick it but yet again i don't under stand how. How would one go about picking a lock with a key like the one above?


srry ahead of time for the barage of question

[Squelchtone]

This post is pretty much your question about sidebars. See my explanation there.

The milling on the side of the ASSA Twin or Schlage Primus locks, bother designed by a guy named Bo Widen who we all love <3 use some additional pins parallel to the key pins as you have found, and if the correct key is inserted with the correct milling, it will lift or lift and twist the sidebar pins to the correct height and angle so that the sidebars fingers/body can mate with grooves or holes in those smaller parallel pins and the sidebar then has somewhere to move or go so it isn't blocking the lock from turning. This second shearline creates a 2nd point of locking, which is the basis for many high security locks.

Glad you're discovering new types of locks though!

Squelchtone

[Daggers]

oh, so the additional pins are the ones engaging the sidebar and not the pins that correspond to the top of the key?

[Squelchtone]

oh, so the additional pins are the ones engaging the sidebar and not the pins that correspond to the top of the key?

the top of the key cuts (the "normal" ones) still interact with normall top pins and springs pushing against them. The sidebar pins have their own internal springs (I'm using ASSA Twin as example) and only travel within the body of the plug, not into the body of the lock.

hope that helps,
Squelchtone

[Daggers]

ok, so the side bar pins are in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hcUQTwy4I at 6:09 right? There can also be a side bar without those extra pins and just have the normal pins rotate because of angled cuts on the key and engage the side bar, because those extra pins are just extra securty and aren't needed to include a sidebar in a lock right? srry if my questions are sounding repetitive, but if this assumption is correct, then i totally understand this whole concept. thanks

[Squelchtone]

ok, so the side bar pins are in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hcUQTwy4I at 6:09 right? There can also be a side bar without those extra pins and just have the normal pins rotate because of angled cuts on the key and engage the side bar, because those extra pins are just extra securty and aren't needed to include a sidebar in a lock right? srry if my questions are sounding repetitive, but if this assumption is correct, then i totally understand this whole concept. thanks

That's an ASSA Twin, only Medeco and Emhart use rotating pins. In the ASSA the main key cuts lift the top pins out of the way so a shearline is created, at the same time the sidebar milling on the key lifts the sidebar pins so a cut out in each pin allows the sidebar fingers to mate with the pins with the plug is rotated forcing the sidebar into the cut out grooves in each pin. So yeah, those extra pins in the ASSA are very much needed to make the sidebar work properly. Think of them in terms of being pieces of metal in the way of the sidebar, but each sidebar pin has a groove in it and if they are lifted to the correct height to match the pattern of the sidebar's fingers they give the sidebar somewhere to go. Even if one of the pins is not lifted correctly the sidebar cannot compress into the plug body and the lock will remain securely locked.

Squelchtone