Adding locksmith to existing business

[csparks1106]

Hi all. New here. I am looking for suggestions on adding locksmith as another service to a full service glass shop. I already work on doors, residential and commercial, so I have some experience with locks, cylinders, and exit devices. Never re keyed a lock, or anything along those lines. We already have a few hardware stores in town that make keys, so I don't know if that is an area I intend to focus on although I'm open to suggestions. Our local colleges don't appear to offer any courses, and I'm already running a business full time, so working under an apprenticeship program is out of the question. Besides, there are no locksmiths in this area.

Thank you.
Charlie

[gloves]

Hello and welcome

I'm sure you will find here a lot of knowledgeable users and locksmiths which will give you at least a general idea of what you should and shouldn't do.

While I do not fall in such category, my suggestion to you would be to check your state laws on locksmithing, first.
Something as simple as subscribing permission to open a certain door by the flat owner may not be valid if you haven't got a certain certification in the field, and may be regarded, at best, as you calling a friend to help me get access.

I know this may sound silly but laws should never be understimated, unless you want to run a not officially recognized sidejob, but again this is another thing may get you in trouble on its own. Consult a lawyer or another locksmith in your same state for specific rules and tips to compare against.

Of course since you say there are no locksmiths in your area you've got an advantage and depending on how large it is, you'd have a steady supply of customers. If your local colleges don't have any courses, try the next largest city. Skill can't be bought, but papers are always a plus other than something to show off.

I apologize if I could not be more helpful, but I'm too out of context to give any deeper insights.

Cheers

[globallockytoo]

Dennis Lock & Safe is only 30 miles from Paris in Russelville.

[csparks1106]

Thanks for the responses. Yeah, I googled locksmiths. There are some in Ft Smith, and used to be one in Ozark.I'm certainly not looking to go all out in the locksmithing trade, just wish it were easier to come across the knowledge I will need. I've thought about doing this for a long time, but what brought this up recently was that I have a customer who is the pastor of a church in town. They have 7 different sets of doors with 4 different sets of keys, 3 doors are residential, and 4 are commercial. They'd like 1 key to fit all the doors. I don't even know if that is an option. I can replace all the commercial cylinders with new, keyed alike cylinders, but I'd have to replace all the knobs. I'd rather learn how to, and re key everything the same. Am I asking too much?

[globallockytoo]

Depending on the different brands of existing hardware, it may be possible to use retrofit cylinders to replace the existing, to enable one key system either keyed alike or masterkeyed to operate. An example is using Bilock retrofit cylinders to enable brands like Schlage, Corbin-Russwin, Yale, Arrow etc to all be keyed alike. Simply replace the existing cylinders with Bilock cylinders.

[Evan]

Hi all. New here. I am looking for suggestions on adding locksmith as another service to a full service glass shop. I already work on doors, residential and commercial, so I have some experience with locks, cylinders, and exit devices. Never re keyed a lock, or anything along those lines. We already have a few hardware stores in town that make keys, so I don't know if that is an area I intend to focus on although I'm open to suggestions. Our local colleges don't appear to offer any courses, and I'm already running a business full time, so working under an apprenticeship program is out of the question. Besides, there are no locksmiths in this area.

Thank you.
Charlie

@csparks1106:

Arkansas does not specifically license locksmiths... You could offer that service to your customers after discussing the matter with your insurance agent and obtaining the proper insurance coverages for locksmithing required by your insurance carrier...

So your experience with locks so far is installing them and swapping cylinders ? How many people work in the glass shop with you ? Could you take a week off to travel to Dallas to take the ALOA six-day basic locksmithing course for a $1,760 course fee and the additional costs of a weeks lodging expenses/travel expenses to and from ?

<< Exterior Link to PDF about the ALOA Training Center's (ATC) Basic Locksmithing Course >>

That would give you the basics of the trade as far as what is beyond your current experience... You would then need at minimum some locksmithing specific hand tools, picks, a code origination machine, a key duplication machine, some lock pinning kits, reference books (initially on master keying, but you could expand your collection over time) and of course consumable supplies like key blanks, replacement locks and keychains...

What is your theoretical maximum buy in funding to be able to offer this new service ?

You can not be a very good locksmith without possessing the equipment necessary to originate and duplicate keys for customers... You can not be a very good locksmith without learning how to re-key and master key existing locks for customers... You can learn the basics of the trade for a couple of thousand dollars in the six day course and obtain a very very basic set of equipment to be able to code originate keys and some pinning kits for another couple of thousand dollars... I think it all boils down to how interested you really are in getting started, whether or not you can take the week off to travel to the training and how much funding you have available to you...

It is very doable especially since you seem to have an established customer base with your glass/door company and there appears to be a demand for the locksmithing service in your local area, just not enough of a demand for it that would support a shop that ONLY provides locksmithing services... Check it out -- perhaps another member here who is more familiar with your area can point you towards the local locksmithing supply house/distributor in your area so you can do a cost check on the barest minimum of equipment you would need... At the legitimate locksmithing trade schools students tend to spend around $1,800 for a basic set of hand tools specific to the locksmithing trade...

I hope that you have the time and funding available, it is a fun trade to learn if you can and you seem to be networked into the same customer base than a locksmith would want to be connected to with your present business so your advantage would be you already know and are in contact with customers potentially in need of quicker locksmithing services than paying for someone to come from 30-40 miles away...

~~ Evan

[Evan]

Thanks for the responses. Yeah, I googled locksmiths. There are some in Ft Smith, and used to be one in Ozark.I'm certainly not looking to go all out in the locksmithing trade, just wish it were easier to come across the knowledge I will need. I've thought about doing this for a long time, but what brought this up recently was that I have a customer who is the pastor of a church in town. They have 7 different sets of doors with 4 different sets of keys, 3 doors are residential, and 4 are commercial. They'd like 1 key to fit all the doors. I don't even know if that is an option. I can replace all the commercial cylinders with new, keyed alike cylinders, but I'd have to replace all the knobs. I'd rather learn how to, and re key everything the same. Am I asking too much?

@csparks1106:

You need to examine the locks in use at present to determine if they are first of the same keyway (if yes, than they likely can be master keyed to work with one key for all locks and individual keys as needed for each door if desired; if no, then you will have to call a locksmith supply house to inquire about the availability of replacement cylinders which have the same keyway as the largest number of locks with the identical keyway so they can be master keyed as a set together in a keying system...

You need to provide more information about the actual locks installed and being used before any of us can say yes/no about it being possible, it might mean replacing at least cylinders if not locks in some situations...

Keying all the doors alike in a church isn't something I would recommend, let's say there are seven doors:

Master Key (opens all doors, given only to pastor)

Pastor's Office (opens the office only, given to secretaries or others as needed)
Outside Door
Storage Closet
Boiler/Utility/Mechanical Room
Bathroom(s)
Classrooms... etc...

Keying the system so one key can open all doors is fine, but keying all doors alike can cause problems sometimes, which is why you would want to create individual keys for each door/set of doors/type of room/etc. so that if desired the customer can compartmentalize access more precisely than someone either has "the key to all the doors" or not...

You are asking the right questions here... It is just a matter of learning the answers... I hope my replies have helped you with that... If you have any additional questions please don't hesitate to ask... Welcome to LP101...

~~ Evan

[csparks1106]

Wow, thanks again for the responses. That was fast. Evan, as far as taking the course, I'd love to. Don't know if I can take the time off. I have one guy in the shop, and my wife in the office. Leaving the shop for a week would be tough for me. I'll look into the class later.
Did I read you right, approximately $4000 for startup with the class?
I'll need to get with the pastor to see what they want to do.

Once again, thanks for the insight.

Charlie

[Evan]

Wow, thanks again for the responses. That was fast. Evan, as far as taking the course, I'd love to. Don't know if I can take the time off. I have one guy in the shop, and my wife in the office. Leaving the shop for a week would be tough for me. I'll look into the class later.
Did I read you right, approximately $4000 for startup with the class?
I'll need to get with the pastor to see what they want to do.

Once again, thanks for the insight.

Charlie

Do you take vacations ? :-O

A week off to travel for something like this when you plan for and schedule a lighter workload during one of the periods where the course is being offered might be a way for you to do this but that would be up to you...

$4,000 would be starting with your choice of one pinning kit (they tend to run at around $250 a piece for the normal non-high security locks but include useful parts that you sometimes might drop or lose when taking a lock apart that the universal wedge .003/.005 kits don't have) and using a normal key duplication machine with depth keys to start off with... I am not in business for myself so I wouldn't know exact figures but you are already established and therefore have many of the general power tools and the vehicle(s) you would need to be more than a stationary shop in place... I think that estimate is too low and would leave you without some of the things you would need...

Depending on how you travel and what you do in the evenings I would put the trip to Texas for the six-day course at between $3,000 to $3,500 in total...

A key code machine with a couple of useful accessories will run into the $2,000 range itself (basic non-digitally controlled machine for ordinary keys, not high-security auto, dimple keys, etc)...

Trade specific hand tools run around $1,800 and you can contact instructors at some of the residential training schools listed on the ALOA website to get an idea of what they are or even a tool list...

A normal key duplication machine (assume new machine at retail but you might be able to find a good one used, check at a distributor for orphaned or factory reconditioned machines) and a small supply of key blanks (do not order an "assortment" of starter key blanks, you will never use some of them at all, find out what types of keys are in use in your area and only order those, if you run into a strange key, a 10 pack of blanks or 50 blank box is only 24/48 hours away via a special order from your supplier) $1,000...

Don't forget to factor in the changes you would make to your advertising, in print, on-line, your business cards, your signage at your shop and on your vehicles to put the word out that you now offer this additional service (no idea what that costs)...

A wise guesstimate would put the cost given the fact that you are already in business at closer to $10,000 to equip you with what you would need to not get stuck in the middle of a job somewhere without the right tools, supplies, pin kits, ability to originate a new key for a set of existing locks that use what might be a locally strange type of key that you haven't encountered before -- this is to provide basic locksmithing services for residential and commercial customers, not including automotive and safe work (the tools and equipment for this work get very pricey very fast) which you might choose to offer later on after you learn and provide the basics for a while and see an additional unmet demand/need in your area for adding those aspects of lock service (customers dislike paying for a huge travel charge on top of the small expense for re-keying their house doors, but for a specialized service like replacing a lost vehicle chip key or opening and repairing a locked out safe a travel premium would be okay for the special knowledge and equipment required) down the road...

You might be able to find a friendly locksmith in your area to whom you would refer any and all auto or safe work you encounter which you are unable to service yourself in exchange for that company providing you the occasional bitting code look-up (for lost office furniture locks, etc.) so you wouldn't have to buy into lots of pricey software and subscription services (which I did not consider and include the cost of in my estimate) for that information right off the bat...

~~ Evan

[csparks1106]

How about Foley Belsaw. I know it's a correspondence course, but what is your opinion?

Thanks.

[Evan]

How about Foley Belsaw. I know it's a correspondence course, but what is your opinion?

Thanks.

@csparks1106:

Some people here will swear by Foley Belsaw... Not me... You don't know who or what is grading your submissions... With the ALOA training center courses in Dallas, you are being taught by someone who is certified and experienced in the trade -- not a diploma mill clerk who will send you your complimentary key machine when you complete your final assignment...

The RL certificate you receive at the end of the six-day course from the ALOA is the same mandatory 10 subject areas that everyone seeking certification from the ALOA must take, 250 questions with a minimum passing score of 70%...

~~ Evan

[cledry]

How about Foley Belsaw. I know it's a correspondence course, but what is your opinion?

Thanks.

Personally I would treat a new hire who took the Foley Belsaw course as if he/she were a person with no experience. You can learn as much from reading a few good books on the subject.

[csparks1106]

How about Foley Belsaw. I know it's a correspondence course, but what is your opinion?

Thanks.

@csparks1106:

Some people here will swear by Foley Belsaw... Not me... You don't know who or what is grading your submissions... With the ALOA training center courses in Dallas, you are being taught by someone who is certified and experienced in the trade -- not a diploma mill clerk who will send you your complimentary key machine when you complete your final assignment...

The RL certificate you receive at the end of the six-day course from the ALOA is the same mandatory 10 subject areas that everyone seeking certification from the ALOA must take, 250 questions with a minimum passing score of 70%...

~~ Evan

Yeah, that's kinda how I feel as well. Not to say that a person taking the course wouldn't get a good handle on the subject, but I would think that a lot of hands on would be better. It would fit into my schedule better, though and is considerably cheaper.
I am good with my hands and am a pretty meticulous person. Once I tear into something I can generally figure out how it works or why it isn't. I'm just concerned that because I'm in such a small area (countywide population of 22,000) there won't be enough call for a full fledged locksmith. It is a mostly rural community, so no big apartment complexes, or large office complexes. All of the hardware stores in town make keys, re key locks, or both. The two bigger body shops offer lock out service. I think it's mostly the air bag and long reach tools. I'm not trying to talk myself out of it, just trying to be realistic about the return on investment.
Maybe someone could give me an idea of who to contact regarding a need for locksmith. I spoke to a local builder this morning and he said he has used a locksmith in the past, but not regularly. Should I inquire from banks, insurance agents, realtors?
Once again, I appreciate the input.

Charlie

[Evan]

Yeah, that's kinda how I feel as well. Not to say that a person taking the course wouldn't get a good handle on the subject, but I would think that a lot of hands on would be better. It would fit into my schedule better, though and is considerably cheaper.
I am good with my hands and am a pretty meticulous person. Once I tear into something I can generally figure out how it works or why it isn't. I'm just concerned that because I'm in such a small area (countywide population of 22,000) there won't be enough call for a full fledged locksmith. It is a mostly rural community, so no big apartment complexes, or large office complexes. All of the hardware stores in town make keys, re key locks, or both. The two bigger body shops offer lock out service. I think it's mostly the air bag and long reach tools. I'm not trying to talk myself out of it, just trying to be realistic about the return on investment.
Maybe someone could give me an idea of who to contact regarding a need for locksmith. I spoke to a local builder this morning and he said he has used a locksmith in the past, but not regularly. Should I inquire from banks, insurance agents, realtors?

The Foley Belsaw course would be something that a carpenter or homeowner would take -- its difficult to learn how to install locks when it is just explained to you in writing... Let's just say that the training unit on master keying seems to be inadequate based on the types of questions people ask around the internet about it later on... In training and certifications you get what you pay for, cheaper may be better for your pocket but paying more to be certified by one of the national authorities on a subject matter just makes better sense in the end...

Something that you haven't discussed previously is: How large is the territory which your door/glass company serves ? You would be offering your additional service of locksmithing in that area as well... Your company would be able to fulfill BOTH installation of doors and all of the lock needs, whatever hardware and keying would be desired by the customer, rather than installing locks which were keyed at the factory or distributor... That sort of service would be of interest to commercial construction general contractor types as a subcontractor service because it would eliminate the need for a separate locksmith...

Making keys sounds like a basic thing and it is, yet most of the hardware stores around today use such dreadful machines that automatically align the original key and the blank key in a cartridge out of sight of the operator who presses a "go" button... As a locksmith you would need the ability to originate and duplicate keys, as it is a basic component of the trade, this is not to say you would become a competitor of the hardware stores, just that if you become a locksmith you might be able to obtain unusual keyblanks from a locksmith supply house that the hardware store can not quickly source through its supply chain... As far as the automotive work, that would be great to learn eventually, but your advantage right now is that you are in the door market, you know the customers you serve, you see an unmet demand for locksmithing service as you install locks out of the boxes with the pre-made one-size fits all master key systems which were keyed by factory technicians without consideration of the facility the doors are being installed in or its management... Your maximum ROI would be based on obtaining the tools and equipment that would be necessary for providing locksmithing services for locks on buildings and smaller furniture only -- you have not seen a market for auto work or learning about safe work at this time, it is something you can spend time and money learning about later on once you have become better established and educated as someone knowledgeable about locks...

Who do you contact for large door or glass installation contract jobs ? That would be your source of work -- you are simply looking at adding locksmithing service to the "menu" you presently offer... If your local builder is only building houses, then he more often than not doesn't need a locksmith, he or his employees can source keyed alike locks at the home improvement warehouse they buy all their building materials from... You need to contact a larger construction firm that builds bigger projects, does commercial work who would need locks master keyed or is installing door closers or something like that who would be interested in subcontracting that work out...

You have a good idea here with this, I am just wondering why you are over thinking it... Your customer base for the added service would be the same as the customers you presently install doors and replace glass for, but you would want to try to network yourself with the larger construction firms who build commercial projects even if that would require traveling a little bit as that is where your idea has the most synergy, as a way to consolidate a door company installing doors and glass (side lites, glass room dividers, etc.) as well as providing locksmithing services like customized master keying...

~~ Evan

[csparks1106]

Ha, the irony of it all. Just got a call from a local clinic. Their door knob fell off and need a new one. Go figure.

Charlie