Double barrel locks

[Gozzo]

I have a couple of padlocks, i picked up from the local dump ( no keys ) that have the normal key way and cylinder, then it looks like another cylinder. I have been trying for months to open one of these with absolutely no success, do I need special tools to open these or will my standard picks work ?

[Solomon]

Bicentric? Pics would help, but if the locks are bicentric then yeah you should be able to pick them. Practice makes perfect

[Gozzo]

No Bicentric locks have two keyways one locks and one unlocks the lock, Im referinf to the Abus 83 series. Here is what I am talking about. for some reason I cant attache an image or I would.

[Squelchtone]

No Bicentric locks have two keyways one locks and one unlocks the lock, Im referinf to the Abus 83 series. Here is what I am talking about. for some reason I cant attache an image or I would.

Gozzo.. what you're referring to as double barrel is not a good example.. do you mean the cylinder/core looks like a snowman? Sounds like your Abus has an SFIC core, or it just has a bible sleeve which makes it look like the bottom of the padlock has 2 overlapping circles, one circle has a keyway and one is solid. This is a way of inserting the lock cylinder into the padlock and keeping it in there by means of a set screw which is installed when the shackle is popped open and you can get a screwdriver down the schackle holes.

Btw, Yale Bicentric was a method of master-keying BEFORE they invented master wafers. One cylinder did not unlock the lock and then one cylinder locked it, it was meant so a supervisor, boss, maintenance guy could open all the locks with his key and his keyway, and the users who used the locks, their key could work the other keyway and only open their padlock, not anyone elses.

The thing you describe is like a manager/worker setup where Abloy and other brands had a set of reversed keys where one could turn clockwise and unlock the store in the morning, but the night employee's key could only lock up for the night so they could not come back at 3am and steal something. You can modify normal pin tumbler cylinders by filing the pin chambers wider to do the same function but its a home made job.

Your Abus core either looks like this (which the back of it will have a hole with screw threads to accept a set screw:


or it will look like this assembly: (notice the cap that will go onto the cylinder's bible? that forms the other circle I think you're talking about)


Hope this explains it.. otherwise post the Http:// of your photo, you cannot upload to the forum, the server is full. use [url]http://tinypic.com[url]

Squelchtone

[Gozzo]

It's the top, Snowman one Squlech. I have one on an " Abus 83/85 " and the other one is a Lockwood " Carbine ". Darn thing feels like it is setting pins. But so far absolutely no Joy. Thanks for the info about the Bi-Centric locks that makes a lot more sense than what i read on another post, which I am pretty sure was here. sorta seemed like a stupid idea.
Gozzo

[Gozzo]

Totally coincidental but today I was given two more Carbines by the local tip guy. Actually he sold them to me for $5 each, apparently these came from a local school, one of the little rats has pinched a set of keys so the locks are being replaced, he kept these two for me because they are master keyed and he figured I would be interested in them. I got them home and expected them to be difficult like the others. However neither lock showed any resistance to a Southord small half diamond. unlike the other one I have, both of these are in good condition and clean. would the fact they have split pins in them have made them easier ? Or does the split pins make no difference ? I figure now, that i dont need a special tool to open them, so would it just be the quality of the lock that is making it so hard or just the fact the lock might be damaged?
Gozzo

[Squelchtone]

Totally coincidental but today I was given two more Carbines by the local tip guy. Actually he sold them to me for $5 each, apparently these came from a local school, one of the little rats has pinched a set of keys so the locks are being replaced, he kept these two for me because they are master keyed and he figured I would be interested in them. I got them home and expected them to be difficult like the others. However neither lock showed any resistance to a Southord small half diamond. unlike the other one I have, both of these are in good condition and clean. would the fact they have split pins in them have made them easier ? Or does the split pins make no difference ? I figure now, that i dont need a special tool to open them, so would it just be the quality of the lock that is making it so hard or just the fact the lock might be damaged?
Gozzo

Call them master pins, not split pins and yes, it makes it much easier to pick a master pinned cylinder than a normal one because while a normal cylinder has 1 possibility for a shear line, the master pinned cylinder has several more possible shearlines giving you a much better chance at opening the lock. =)

check out some master keyed / master pinned lock videos on youtube, look for Deviant Ollam's TOOOL powerpoint at deviating.net or look for Schuyler Towne's 24 part video set on How to Pick Locks.

Happy picking!
Squelchtone

[Gozzo]

Shall do thanks for your help, Squelch.
Gozzo

[Gozzo]

Just got the original lock in question, I was using a Southord half diamond, but I had a go with my C/Card set as they are shorter and it isnt so easy to put excess leverage on the pins, it would appear I was being a little heavy handed with it. I was begining to lose confidence in myself, which I am going to put down to the appearence of the lock and my perception that is was going to be harder than normal. I think the lesson here, is stick to the basic technique, and don't think you can't, or you will be 100% correct.
Gozzo