Locksmiths in Quebec now require license

[PhilMTL]

Hi there,

Posted a thread here a few years ago, frequent lurker.

I've been thinking of becoming a locksmith here in Montreal for a few years on and off. Last time I looked into it seriously, 2009, the consensus was that there was no licensing process in this province.

Well, I was looking into it today and found out that is no longer the case.

The Private Security Act was passed in July 2010 and this requires people working in several security related trades, including locksmithing, to get a card from the government. In order to get this card as a locksmith you must have gone through a locksmith course that is recognized by the Ministere d'Education, Loisir & Sport. There's also a seperate license required for the owner of locksmith business.

At this point it's a unclear to me whether the correspondence courses discussed on here (Foley Belsaw, ICS Canada, etc...) are recognized. I'm sending out some emails to find out more and I'll report back here once I know more.

Relevant Links
http://www.bureausecuriteprivee.qc.ca/en_home.html
http://www.bureausecuriteprivee.qc.ca/en_faq.html ('Questions regarding training' heading)

As far as I know this doesn't affect ownership of tools at all, only the ability to be employed / open a business in these fields. I am not a lawyer however so don't take my word as legal advice.

Thought I'd share this info for any other folks in Quebec who are thinking about locksmithing and ther correspondence courses in particular

[PhilMTL]

I got a response from ICS Canada on whether their course is recognized and they said I'd need to check with the Bureau de la Sécurité Privé myself to find out which courses are acceptable.

So basically they have no idea. To me this is a pretty big red flag for their credibility.

Whether it's just ignorance on their part, or deliberate omission because they know their course isn't recognized, I don't know.

What I do know is I won't be giving them any of my money if they can't answer a direct question about their credentials / compliance with this law.

[pickmonger]

Very interesting

As has been discussed many times the Criminal Code of Canada which applies to all provinces including Quebec requires that anyone in possesion of lockpicks be licensed.

The loophole that protects many Canadians is that only some provinces issue the licenses. This is changing as more and more provinces are looking to license locksmiths.

Quebec now issues the licenses therefore you may be subject to criminal charges if you have lockpicks with out a license.

[access11]

PhilMTL, have been able to find out more about what courses are recognized for the license?

[PhilMTL]

Haven't checked in here for a while, sorry for the late response on this.

I emailed the Ministere d'Education, Loisir & Sport about which locksmith courses are recognized by the province and would be considered valid when applying for the Private Security Act license. Their response simply pointed me to the following site:

http://inforoutefpt.org

This site covers all vocational / trade education in Quebec. If you search for 'serrurier' (french word for 'locksmith') on there, it will turn up a page about available courses. Note, if you search for the english term 'locksmith' it doesn't turn up this result, probably just not updated as quickly.

The specifc page for 'Serrurier' is the following one:
http://www2.inforoutefpt.org/guide/det_ ... &QRegion=0

In the upper right of that page there's a dark blue box with some drop down list boxes, the first of these listboxes contains all the schools that offer the course. One is near Quebec City. One is in La Prairie on the South Shore of Montreal.

So, since the Ministere d'Education, Loisir & Sport pointed me to this Info Route site, I can only assume that the courses listed on that site are the ones recognized by the government.

However, on the website for the 'Bureau de la sécurité privée' in the FAQ, under the 'Questions about Training' heading it has the following text:

for locksmith work, to hold a diploma of vocational studies in locksmithing or its equivalent recognized by the Minister of Education, Recreation and Sports;

The bit about 'equivalent recognized by the Minister of Education, Recreation and Sports' might allow some leeway, for example if someone from abroad arrived in the province, they might be able to get equivalency somehow.

That's about all I know about it at the moment. Hopefully this can help other folks trying to navigate through this.

As for the legality of having picks now, I'd really like to find out more. I guess if the the Canada Criminal Code requires everyone with picks to have a license AND Quebec is now issuing licenses THEN it's possible to be charged for possession of picks. Is the context / intent taking into account here? If for some reason the police had to visit my apartment and found my picks there, what kind of trouble would I be looking at (ignoring all legal fine points about them not having come with a warrant to specifically look for picks or whatever).

I don't intend on carrying them with me anywhwere and have no bad intentions whatsoever, but the idea of getting into serious legal trouble almost makes me want to just get rid of the picks on the off chance something would happen.

Anyone know about what the charge would be for possession of picks without a license, particularly for someone who has no previous criminal record or trouble with the law?

[0x41414141]

Hello,

This is a great question. I would like to mention first that i am not a lawyer.

I called the government regarding this issue and I was told the following points:

1- Using lockpicks to commit burglary is an "aggravating factor". It shows premeditation.

2- The private security act does not licence tools (such as picks), it protects acts. Opening locks in a commercial building, in order to service or repair the lock, is a protected action, that requires having a permit from the government (locksmith).

3- A permit is also required to counsel clients regarding private security.

4- The permit is pretty easy to obtain, requiring to prove that you don't have a criminal record and that you pay 110$/y

5- Thus, for lock-sport, I don't think the law is an issue since we are not opening locks in order to repair them and that people we counsel are not clients.

I hope this helps

[pickmonger]

Do not confuse the requirements of the province of Quebec with Canadian Federal Law.

May not face Quebec charges for hobby picks but might not be so lucky on Federal Charges.

Criminal Code of Canada requires that everyone have a license to be in posession of certain tools.

Some Canadians MAY be loopholed because their province does not yet issue licenses .

Quebec does issue licenses that may meet the requirements under the Criminal Code of Canada.

If a locksmith from Quebec was to visit Alberta would the Alberta government consider his Quebec License enough to prevent
him being charged with possession with out a license?

Of course the probability of getting caught is very low if you use some common sense.