What is a "universal keyed" master 1 or 3?

by **Kodack** » 30 Sep 2004 18:48

I'm trying to order some locks to pick from homedepot and the cheapest Master 1 and 3's they have are advertised as "universal keyed" fits to your customers key in minutes.

What does this mean? Does it mean they don't come with keys and need pins added to secure or something?

by **Chucklz** » 30 Sep 2004 19:05

These locks have a kind of serrated pin. You insert the key you want the lock keyed to, then using a punch and a hammer give the plug a mighty whack. You shear the pins at the right depth, and push everything foward one space. I wouldnt recommend starting picking on these, because you need to have them "keyed", and of course the pins are serrated.

by **Romstar** » 30 Sep 2004 19:56

Dear lord NO.

Don't start picking with those things. You'll swear we're all liars, and that nobody can pick a lock.

Because of the way the pins are designed to shear off and automatically match an existing key, it has the effect of making ALL the pins serrated.

Both the drivers and the bottom pins.

Find something a little more normal.

Good luck,
Romstar

by **32768** » 30 Sep 2004 19:58

I've always wondered on these... let's say I have one on my gate. What's to stop someone from coming along, putting in a random key, and giving it another mighty whack to cut the pins again (effectively master keying it)? And short of taking the lock apart, how would I even know this had happened?

Of course, I haven't been curious enough yet to actually buy one and try it. Has anyone else?

by **Kodack** » 30 Sep 2004 20:05

I got a normal Master #1 (only 4 pins????) 2 Master combo's and 1 kwikset in doorknob lock.

I just destroyed one of my deadbolt cylynders trying to do a cutaway.

by **Chucklz** » 30 Sep 2004 20:37

Once youve given the lock its whack, it pushes everything foward one space. So there is a 5th hole drilled in the bible of the lock. Once its foward one position, it stays there, and there is no more positions to push it to. Incidentally, these locks are reported to be a bit "rougher" to operate than more traditional locks.

by **Mad Mick** » 30 Sep 2004 20:47

32768 wrote:I've always wondered on these... let's say I have one on my gate. What's to stop someone from coming along, putting in a random key, and giving it another mighty whack to cut the pins again (effectively master keying it)? And short of taking the lock apart, how would I even know this had happened?

Of course, I haven't been curious enough yet to actually buy one and try it. Has anyone else?

Problem here (for the potential thief). When the lock is manufactured, the plug is inserted one hole less than the final position, meaning that the plug face is protruding from the lock body. The key is inserted into the keyway, which produces the correct bitting, then the plug/key is whacked into the body, thus shearing the pins and creating upper and lower pins. The plug is now at it's correct place in the lock. Once this operation has been performed, there's no possibility of further whacking to create a master-pinned config. One possible bypass method I can come up with, is to find a substantial torque tool, and re-shear the pins, but as I haven't done a post-mortem on one of these locks, this is just theoretical.

As stated previously by Chucklz & Romstar, this lock now effectively has serrated upper and lower pins. :twisted:

by **CaptHook** » 30 Sep 2004 20:57

Without seeing an internal view, Im wondering if it only shears in one direction (the chambers are somehow cut to only allow the weakened pins to break only if the plug is pushed in)
Chuck

by **Mad Mick** » 30 Sep 2004 21:14

In that case, wouldn't the pins have to be oriented with a weakened section aligned axially to the cylinder? What's to stop the pins from rotating during shipping? Not trying to be a tosser here, I just want to understand how this lock is constructed/protected from attacks....

by **Buggs41** » 30 Sep 2004 21:38

And, What happens to the sheared off pieces?

by **Chucklz** » 30 Sep 2004 21:46

The sheared pieces become "top" pins.

by **CaptHook** » 30 Sep 2004 21:53

The pins have the center section turned down to a smaller diameter (dont have any measurements). What Im thinking is maybe the chamber holes in the plug have a kind of cutting edge ground onto the trailing edge of the hole? I dont know...... otherwise your idea of re-shearing seems like it would be too obvious for them to leave that way.
Chuck

by **Buggs41** » 30 Sep 2004 21:55

That is a very clever idea.

I couldn't visualize it at first. Still stuck on the "normal" way a lock is made.

by **32768** » 30 Sep 2004 22:10

That's a pretty slick design.

So I'd guess that the top part of the first pin (before shearing) must not line up with a corresponding hole (after shearing)- otherwise it would drop down as there would not be a lower part to it. The former lower part would now be the bottom part of the next pin stack. In the same way, the last pin stack must have the top pin only and it must be held up by the end of the plug until it's sheared.

The pins must be pretty long, otherwise, if I had a tall cut next to a short one then the leftover piece of the tall one (which will become the top pin of the short one) might not be big enough for the resulting pin stack to work- the total height of top and bottom pins might not be enough to hold the spring out of the plug. Sort of like if you pinned a lock with only two little slivers. I'd break out the ascii art, but that would probably just make matters worse.

Now I want to get one to play with. But which to do first- cut it open and take pictures or try to master key it with a key to something else and a pair of vice grips? :twisted:

Mebbe I'd best get two...

by **Benroy44** » 1 Oct 2004 1:02

Ive got one that was misset from work that we had to cut off i will see if i can take it apart this weekend and take a photo or two and poast them Cya Duane

What is a "universal keyed" master 1 or 3?

What is a "universal keyed" master 1 or 3?

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