Using LW pins in Gainborough locks

[minifhncc]

Hi all,

I got a locksmith to change some Gainsborough locks a while ago (TE2 keyway).

I took the lock apart today and found that he used LAB lockwood pins. Is that bad? I believe that Gainsborough pins are larger in diameter.

Also, I was able to use a Lockwood plug follower (Argus 01 - orange) and it worked fine. Why is that? I believe that there is one for Gainsborough one which is green. What would be the use of that then?

Thanks

[aussielocky]

There have been a number of versions of the gainsborough product. For some LAB pins are just fine. Others not.

The difference in plug diameter is minimal, so the orange follower is usually OK when rekeying. However if you were trying to shim a cylinder your would need a closer fitting plug to do it with .......

[lunchb0x]

Also with Gainsborough, the older locks where the LAB pins don't fit, it is only a smaller diameter in the plug not the housing, so using the correct sized drill bit I have been able to drill out the bibles in the plug so the LAB pins fit, as the diameter is larger in the housing the pins are fine in the lock. The newer Gainsborough the diameter in the plugs is fine for LAB pins... Your best option though is to get something other than Gainsborough... especially if it's a Tri- lock

[minifhncc]

Thanks for your replies!

However if you were trying to shim a cylinder your would need a closer fitting plug to do it with .......

Sorry if this is a novice question, but what exactly do you mean by this? (I've even tried searching around but I still don't get what you mean).

The newer Gainsborough the diameter in the plugs is fine for LAB pins...

Weird, these locks are from around 2003, which I believe are the older Gainsborough locks.

Your best option though is to get something other than Gainsborough... especially if it's a Tri- lock

Yes, I have a trilock and it is a pain (although they weren't the locks in question here). I had some trouble with it after rekeying it a few times and even after obtaining a replacement locking mechanism from Gainsborough it is not working properly sometimes.

Although, I have replaced the original TE2 cylinder on the trilock with a C4 cylinder (makes life much easier). But unfortunately, there's nothing that can cover the three ugly holes easily, thus the Trilock remains.

By the way, what experiences have you had with Gainsborough that makes you hate them so much?

I think Globallockytoo here has told me that he actually liked working with Gainsborough products, and he's quite experienced I believe. So I guess it is really one it his own...

Thanks

[lunchb0x]

The Tri- locks have a plastic part in the furniture that fails and then you can't get in. Re-keying them is a pain, you have to pull the whole thing apart to get to the cylinder, yes I know this is the case with most locks but most other locks come apart a lot quicker.

Gainsborough entrance sets have a plastic housing of the barrel....

Gainsborough is mostly fitted by builders, I know that this isn't an issue with the brand itself but pretty much all the ones that I come across have to be refit and the strikes cut in deeper so they can deadlock.

Also the price for them, they are about $280 from Bunnings? I think that this is too much for the quality of the lock..... but in saying that they have been getting better over the years and can be a pain to pick open, at least they use spool pins in their locks, something that Lockwood are slowly learning.

[minifhncc]

The Tri- locks have a plastic part in the furniture that fails and then you can't get in.

Thankfully this hasn't happened to me so far (after ~7 years)....

Re-keying them is a pain, you have to pull the whole thing apart to get to the cylinder, yes I know this is the case with most locks but most other locks come apart a lot quicker.

This is indeed true. There seems to be heaps of small parts which make it fiddly to deal with. And I think the euro cylinder can be a pain to rekey too because it needs to be picked first (unless if one wants to spend all day putting the top pins back into place)...

Gainsborough entrance sets have a plastic housing of the barrel....

I haven't looked closely but the one I have (which is quite old) seems to be all metal...

Gainsborough is mostly fitted by builders

Yeah, new housing estates seem to have Gainsboroughs. I don't know why builders like them so much... At least they're starting to use C4 profiles, making life easier to key everything alike.

Also the price for them, they are about $280 from Bunnings? I think that this is too much for the quality of the lock.....

All their products seem to be at least double in price from substitute counterparts from Brava and Carbine (eg. entrance door knobs). I'm not sure what makes them so pricey...

but in saying that they have been getting better over the years and can be a pain to pick open, at least they use spool pins in their locks, something that Lockwood are slowly learning.

I think Lockwood are a bit tricky to pick in the respect that they tend to use strong springs for their cylinders... In which locks are they starting to put spool pins in?

And Lockwood's quality seems to be quite good too. I would choose a 355 or 001, with a Carbine or Brava entrance door knob over a trilock any day.

[lunchb0x]

The Gainsborough reps do a good job at going out to the building companies and selling there product which is why you will find it on most new places, pretty much the only time that it isn't is if something else has been specified.

When re keying Tri- lock you can also cut the bottom half of the key off, so when you turn the key 180* you can still get the plug follower in to hold the top pins.

Lockwood are going to make their locks bump and pick resistant with their kinetic Defence. They first told us about this at the launch of their new mortice lock last year..... I haven't seen the cylinders come out yet..

[minifhncc]

The Gainsborough reps do a good job at going out to the building companies and selling there product which is why you will find it on most new places, pretty much the only time that it isn't is if something else has been specified.

If that's the case then when I build my next house I'll definitely opt for something other than Gainsborough.

When re keying Tri- lock you can also cut the bottom half of the key off, so when you turn the key 180* you can still get the plug follower in to hold the top pins.

Yeah I know that method, but it seems too much of a hassle... Probably takes the same effort as picking each lock...

Lockwood are going to make their locks bump and pick resistant with their kinetic Defence. They first told us about this at the launch of their new mortice lock last year..... I haven't seen the cylinders come out yet..

Hmm... That's interesting... Do you think pick guns will no longer work with those locks? Because, I think, pick guns are much can deliver much more force than than bump keys alone.

[minifhncc]

Also, I don't why, but Lockwood seem to be quite stubborn sticking with 5 pin cylinders as their default cylinders. I don't know what they have against 6 pin ones...

[lunchb0x]

Also, I don't why, but Lockwood seem to be quite stubborn sticking with 5 pin cylinders as their default cylinders. I don't know what they have against 6 pin ones...

I know right, they make their cylinders 6 pin but only use 5....

I don't know what their bump resistant locks would be like as I haven't had a chance to look at one yet. If I remember I will see if I can get hold of one and have a go.

[aussielocky]

Never seen a spool pin in Gainsborough. They do have a ridge on the bottoms pins though,

I've played with the kinetic defence, It's being introduced into all Lockwood products. It will not be popular when it comes to lockouts as it will play havoc with the pickguns ......

[minifhncc]

It will not be popular when it comes to lockouts as it will play havoc with the pickguns

So, it doesn't work with pickguns at all, or is it just difficult to work with pick guns?

How could one pick them then? Just by SPPing?

[aussielocky]

More difficult with a pick gun, it will require finesse or SPP.

[minifhncc]

Hmm okay. So how exactly are kinetic defense locks made? Ie, what makes them less susceptible to bumping? Is it special pins, or...?

[aussielocky]

All the pins in the locks are very slightly spooled. So as soon as you put any turning tension on with the key / tension wrench your going to be in trouble.