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no hole

TOSL Project. A community project to "build a better mousetrap".

Re: no hole

Postby Tyler J. Thomas » 24 Jun 2011 19:01

Evan wrote:
Confederate wrote:Well if you can't produce evidence, then I guess it's your word versus mine, which puts us back at square one. Agree to disagree and get back on topic?


What you are asking is not feasible to produce, nor would it apply to our discussion here, as that condo complex might not have a "master key" clause in its documentation... While condo associations always reserve the right of entry in an emergency, it is often left vague as to how that entry will be made as not every complex maintains a master key or duplicate copies of each owner's unit key...

If you are curious about condos, you can locate a nearby development in your local area and go to the local land registry office or city/town clerk and obtain a copy of the declaration of condo document which would legally outline and describe that condo complex...

No two of such documents are ever going to be the identical even if they were written by the same developer because the site conditions/definitions/boundaries in each complex are unique...

~~ Evan


Do you live outside of the United States?
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Re: no hole

Postby Tyler J. Thomas » 24 Jun 2011 19:18

Don't have to produce an HoA citation which contains such a clause -- the condo complex just existing means that the owners of the individual units have to pay for their share of the common asset overhead/operational costs which the condo association needs take care of in order to provide for proper care and maintenance of the common areas of the complex for which it is responsible for...

All common expenses in a condo complex are paid for by the unit owners -- there is no external source of revenue nor is there a management company/single owner/landlord paying for all those costs like in an apartment complex... Each unit owner in a condo complex owns a specific percentage of interest in the common elements of the complex but there is no actual "owner" of the common lands and property other than the not-for-profit condo association corporation...


Let me re-quote this again, because this is my main dispute.

You are aware that companies exist that are contracted to operate condominiums, like Atlantic Pacific or CMA or Citadel for example? They are paid by the condominium tenants through dues. Property management, as it's known. If one of their employees loses the key, they're paying for it - not the tenants. What about companies like Allied Barton which provide security? If one of their employees loses the key, they're paying for it. Then you have hotel/condominiums buildings, like the Four Seasons. Do you think the home owners pay for a re-key if a Four Seasons employee loses the key? The homeowner's dues pay for the management companies, the security companies, and the hotel/condo employees (such as housekeeping for common areas). Going by your logic, their dues will go up if a contracted company or management misplaces the key. Not the case, no matter what you say. You're making these statements, the burden of proof is on you. If this happens as often as you allude, you shouldn't have had a hard time finding it.

Again, if you can't provide evidence, through either a civil suit (where someone disputed the charge) or a homeowners agreement where unexpected events like that are the homeowners responsibility, it's your understanding of the situation vs. mine, and we can't both be right.

I could cite HOA after HOA that doesn't stipulate such responsiblity but all it takes is one to prove me wrong - then it'd be a matter of majority.

I don't care anymore, Evan. You win. Now, let's get back on topic.

Back on topic:

Has anyone seen how Yale help's prevent this attack? I love the snap-off section. I'm sure someone could improvise with some careful cutting. Same concept as with mult-section screws. Score the material enough so that it breaks along the lines when enough force is applied. I like.
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Re: no hole

Postby peterwn » 19 May 2012 22:02

exspook wrote:BANHAM have there own people

and I have opened on average two a month, mainly repo work

The older pin cylinders do impression well and the main door locks are normally keyed alike.

I have not had to open the new line of dimple locks as they do look challenging :shock: :shock:

I have seen an older Banham key - looked like a Yale mk system profile key and bow shaped same as Yale masterkeys. Same for illustration of Banham padlock - a Yale 850 or so cast bronze padlock but branded 'Banham'. Presumably manufactured by Yale under contract.

Wonder where blanks came from for impressioning - I understood Yale never released such blanks in UK.

Stayed at a friend's place in London recently - they had dimple type rim 'trigger' lock and parrot beak deadlock. Looked at the key a bit. Key is reversible with two rows of dimples each side. One row seems to be at complementary depths to the other row. Deadlock (and inside rimlock) cylinders are half turn only - cannot figure this unless there are two sets of drivers. Had no tools so dismantling was out of the question.

Friend was moaning about 50 quid cost for an extra key (ouch!).
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