Where can I buy a comb key for impressioning?

[robocpo2]

I am new to the art of impressioning. Are there any tips to seeing marks on the blanks better. The marks are so faint and require magnification. Any tips on how to use foil or some other material on the blank for better marks. Or tips for impressioning faster. I'd like to beagle to impression pin tumblers as easy as wafers and be able to do it in 5 min. Or less

Also. Are there an self impressioning tools available that can be bought online?

Where can I buy a comb key for foil impressioning or how can I make one? Thanks for your input guys.

[cledry]

Sometimes knife-edging a blank works better. Always use clean, top quality files so that you have a nice smooth surface. A good work light is important. I prefer natural subdued window light.

I don't go for foil, or combs or smoking blanks. I rarely have a lock I cannot impression. Today I did three pin tumbler locks in under 5 minutes, but all were relatively easy ones, two Honda motorcycles and a Ford ignition. Some locks such as a Sargent or Corbin Russwin will take me longer, but if they won't pick at least I have an alternate plan of attack.

[robocpo2]

Thanks for the reply. I tried the knife edge and I am able to see the marks of all the 5 pins; however, after I begin filing those original marks down and I put the key back into the lock to find more marks, I can't see any marks at all. The new filed metal seems to be either too resilient or not wanting to make any marks. Any ideas?

I compared the pin spacing with the real key and at least that was right on the money. But I'm not sure how to proceed after making the first files.

[cledry]

Thanks for the reply. I tried the knife edge and I am able to see the marks of all the 5 pins; however, after I begin filing those original marks down and I put the key back into the lock to find more marks, I can't see any marks at all. The new filed metal seems to be either too resilient or not wanting to make any marks. Any ideas?

I compared the pin spacing with the real key and at least that was right on the money. But I'm not sure how to proceed after making the first files.

Not really, they usually will mark but sometimes just one pin at a time. It takes a keen eye.

[robocpo2]

Okay so I now have a swill 6" 4 cut rat tail file and a 6" 4 cut pippin file. I am able to see the marks of all 5 pins on the first impression. I first file the marks so that they are most visible by one stroke back and forth with the straight sharp edge of the pippin file and file straight down to make the marks more visible. Then I widen it and continue filing using the rat tail 6" file and and rat tail for the remainder filing of the key. However, even though the bevels that I created for the pins look smoother because I'm using the rat tail I still have problems seeing distinct marks inside the bevels unlike when I do the first impression and I see all 5 pin marks before filing. I'm still about to try the sandpaper option to make the metal even more smoother to see if that is the problem. When I file with the rat tail I file straight down which is what the instructional videos say to do with the rat file that I received in the mail, but am I supposed to do some other kind of motion?

Also, How would one use depth keys to make impressioning easier? I was surfing around and read about it, but it wasn't really described in detail the process of using depth keys for impressioning. Thanks guys for all your input. Hopefully I'll get this down someday. I have gone through 20 keys and have not had one successful blind impression without looking at the real key

[2octops]

Impressioning is a skill that can not be mastered quickly.

Usually I find that people that are having problems seeing the marks are not using the correct technique for making the marks.

Grab key with small vice grips, polish edge with file, insert, turn to bind pins, bump vice grips down, back to center, turn to bind, bump up, over and over again.

Knife edging works well with wafers but not so much with pins.

You're looking for dimples in the blade of the key, not marks on the edges when doing pins.

Make sure your cuts are wide enough as you file. If you file to narrow, the pin will not rest in the valley that you file.

Take all of the pins out of your practice lock except for 1 or 2 pin stacks in the front or back. Pay close attention to what you have to do to create marks in these known positions. After you get the hang of those positions, move the 2 pin stacks to the rear and do ti again, then to the center of the cylinder.

Reading glasses or a magnifying visor comes in very handy for finding marks. Also play with different lighting to find what works best for you.

You don't need a bunch of fancy tools to impression a simple key. Pliers, file, key and lock are all that it takes.

[sandplum]

Robocpo2, I don't fully understand your description if the the technique you are using, so I can't really comment on it. But I do recommend that you watch Jos Weyers' videos explaining his technique... he is able to make keys quite quickly.

Also, Oliver Diederichsen's book on Impressioning is excellent. I happen to have an extra copy of it.... please contact me directly if you would be interested in buying it.

[plainjoe]

I've just started trying to impression. I'm encountering a problem that I didn't see described here. I'm very concerned to correctly identify pin impressions where they're supposed to be. To experiment, I've pulled out some old Kwikset cylinders. I've removed all the pins from one and I use it to mark where to expect pin marks. Then I scribe a line down the side of the key so I always know where to look for pin marks. As I impression, pin impressions always show up where I expect them to. But after a while, something else starts to happen.

What I'm finding is, sometimes pin marks show up somewhere else, and sometimes those pin marks are very deep. I've taken a photo so you can see what I mean.



Away from the line where I expect a pin impression to be there is one large and two small pin impressions clustered together toward the edge of the key (perhaps from different wiggles - and maybe it's hard to see the third pin impression but you can see the second pin impression in the photo, to the right, if you look for a moment). The impressions themselves look like nice, deep pits or wells, and a removed pin is able to fit into each of them. I wish properly located pin impressions where this deep and this obvious!

How can such impressions be made? What do they mean? Should I treat them like proper pin impressions? Should I ignore them? So far, if I ignore them, they just get deeper and they start to look like troughs or gouges. If I pay attention to them, I don't end up with a key that opens the lock anyway. Maybe I'm giving up too early, or maybe I'm not trusting myself, but this is really throwing me!

How should I be thinking about these kinds of marks? What should I do to get a successfully impressioned key so it will open the lock?

[Evan]

What I'm finding is, sometimes pin marks show up somewhere else, and sometimes those pin marks are very deep. I've taken a photo so you can see what I mean.



Away from the line where I expect a pin impression to be there is one large and two small pin impressions clustered together toward the edge of the key (perhaps from different wiggles - and maybe it's hard to see the third pin impression but you can see the second pin impression in the photo, to the right, if you look for a moment). The impressions themselves look like nice, deep pits or wells, and a removed pin is able to fit into each of them. I wish properly located pin impressions where this deep and this obvious!

@plainjoe:

Kwikset pins are flat on the bottom rather than pointed...

This might be causing some of your confusion...

The odd marks off to the sides of the cuts you are filing are from the edges of the pin marking...

~~ Evan

[cledry]

I've just started trying to impression. I'm encountering a problem that I didn't see described here. I'm very concerned to correctly identify pin impressions where they're supposed to be. To experiment, I've pulled out some old Kwikset cylinders. I've removed all the pins from one and I use it to mark where to expect pin marks. Then I scribe a line down the side of the key so I always know where to look for pin marks. As I impression, pin impressions always show up where I expect them to. But after a while, something else starts to happen.

What I'm finding is, sometimes pin marks show up somewhere else, and sometimes those pin marks are very deep. I've taken a photo so you can see what I mean.



Away from the line where I expect a pin impression to be there is one large and two small pin impressions clustered together toward the edge of the key (perhaps from different wiggles - and maybe it's hard to see the third pin impression but you can see the second pin impression in the photo, to the right, if you look for a moment). The impressions themselves look like nice, deep pits or wells, and a removed pin is able to fit into each of them. I wish properly located pin impressions where this deep and this obvious!

How can such impressions be made? What do they mean? Should I treat them like proper pin impressions? Should I ignore them? So far, if I ignore them, they just get deeper and they start to look like troughs or gouges. If I pay attention to them, I don't end up with a key that opens the lock anyway. Maybe I'm giving up too early, or maybe I'm not trusting myself, but this is really throwing me!

How should I be thinking about these kinds of marks? What should I do to get a successfully impressioned key so it will open the lock?

If they have Kwikset pins the cuts have to be wider to accommodate Kwikset flat pins. I will say if you can impression a Kwikset with flat pins you are doing very well indeed.