Help with CA laws plz??

[nickfish03]

Ok. Here is the problem. I have been going around doing some research and yes I have looked at the FAQ about the laws but I am still confused. The California Penal Code from my understanding is saying that as long as I do not intend to use any "burguralry" tools for things that they shouldn't be used for then it's ok to have them. Then also I hear that lock pick sets are ILLEGAL IN ALL AREAS and they also can not be shipped to CA. (In case you haven't guessed I live in California) If anyone could help me figure out what is what then I would greatly appreciate your help. Some intentions that I am going for are to possibly buy a lock pick set. Pick locks as a hobby (no criminal intentions). Have fun with it. I have already picked a lock 4 times read the MIT guide but I am thinking about getting a pick set. So in that case any suggestions? California Penal Code 466: "466. Every person having upon him or her in his or her possession a picklock, crow, keybit, crowbar, screwdriver, vise grip pliers,
water-pump pliers, slidehammer, slim jim, tension bar, lock pick gun,
tubular lock pick, floor-safe door puller, master key, ceramic or
porcelain spark plug chips or pieces, or other instrument or tool
with intent feloniously to break or enter into any building, railroad
car, aircraft, or vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle as defined in
the Vehicle Code, or who shall knowingly make or alter, or shall
attempt to make or alter, any key or other instrument named above so
that the same will fit or open the lock of a building, railroad car,
aircraft, vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle as defined in the Vehicle
Code, without being requested to do so by some person having the
right to open the same, or who shall make, alter, or repair any
instrument or thing, knowing or having reason to believe that it is
intended to be used in committing a misdemeanor or felony, is guilty
of a misdemeanor. Any of the structures mentioned in Section 459
shall be deemed to be a building within the meaning of this section."

[mrfirebug]

From the looks of what you copied up there it says that as long as the person who owns the lock, in this case yourself, is ok with you picking it then it sounds all right to be in possession of a pick set. The selling is probably a totally different issue. You may have to have a license to be sold a set.

Don't quote me on any of this, though. I cannot say that I interpret laws well. I would say look for legal precedents in your area. Has any body been tried for carrying a pick? If so, what happened to them? If you really want a definative answer then call up a lawyer and he may be able to help you for a fee, of course.

Sorry I can't help more
~Mike

[vector40]

You basically have an accurate understanding, nick. "Intent" is what can turn a screwdriver (or a pick) from an innocent tool into a criminal violation.

[raimundo]

proving intent amounts to this. If you have prior convictions for burglary, and are found with any of those tools, you are a burglar and you have intent. If you have no prior convictions, and you are not on private property without permission, there is no presumed intent.

[nickfish03]

Allright. So far that has helped some but.. Just to clear things a little if they aren't already I do not have a set yet and I am under the age of 18. So if it would be possible for myself to buy and own a lock pick set how would I have to do that? (I wouldn't have to necessarily buy it myself)

[Ezer]

You can either have a parent order a set off the internet, or if you have the tools and ability, you can make a set yourself.

There are plenty of posts on both topics. Here's one about ordering while being under 18: viewtopic.php?t=7357&highlight= and if you want to make them, Pyro1234321 has a video you should watch.

[nickfish03]

Thanks. I would have watched Pyro's movie already but I don't have a windows and I doubt i'll be on one anytime soon. I have picked a lock 6 times with a flat-head screwdriver and some wire but it took awhile so thanks again

[ElAbogado]

*In case you have ever wondered why [edit]*

[edit- we do not discuss Destructive entry here, no matter how well known it may or may not be-unlisted]

[tacomn]

california has some very grey area laws. buying lockpicks and lockpicking is basically illegal but up for interpretation. I live in cali and have bought sets online fine and seen sets for sale in stores. Not telling you to not listen to the law... just saying that its hazy in what it states and you aint going to go to jail for doing it in your own house :)

[allamericanlock]

I dont think it would be a good idea to carry the picks around in the car with you. I dont think youll run into any problems having them at your house and picking your locks there. If i were you i would just apply for a locksmith license. All you have to do is get finger printed fill out a couple forms and pay the fees (under $100) and you can carry those picks where ever you want.

[Poff]

[quote="allamericanlock"]I dont think it would be a good idea to carry the picks around in the car with you. I dont think youll run into any problems having them at your house and picking your locks there. If i were you i would just apply for a locksmith license. All you have to do is get finger printed fill out a couple forms and pay the fees (under $100) and you can carry those picks where ever you want.[/quote]


I agree but I want to say it cost me closer to $150-$175.

[atticRR]

i bought a set online and had to verify that i was a lic. locksmith (not) or an in house locksmith to enable them to send to CA. When i say verify i mean I checked a box that said i was. I actually am lucky enough to be able to claim the 'in house locksmith' portion of the declaration as my wife owns a store, its only got 2 doors buut that enough to consider myself in house.
As to driving with my lockpicks, I think that should be avoided. I thought about bringing them to work to pick on my lunch break but thought better of it. If i did transport them i would keep them out of sight if i were you. If i were me I would hide them so they couldnt be found, but thats me not wanting to explain why im driving around with picks to a suspicious officer.

[dmcintyre86]

California is very tough with the laws regarding burglary tools.

As is it written in the penal Code it does state you have to have intent to use. However this doesnt mean the cops have to catch you using them. Possession of these picks is pretty specific...what else would they be used for and if they are in your car (readily accessible) or on your person then that is possession with intent. This is why Locksmiths in CA are issued licensing and ID cards. Also if you are a student taking a locksmith coarse i would recommend always having some sort of Student ID or verification to show if this problem arises.
In CA it is a Misdemeanor to possess any type of burglary tool and usually carries a 30-60 day sentence with probation.

My best advise is, if you don't have a legitimate cause to carry or possess them, DO NOT leave the house with them.
Possession is 9/10ths of the law and in some counties its 100% of the law

-Dave

[quixotal]

Agreed. Save for going to a TOOOL meeting or something similar, why risk it and leave the house with them. Second to that, if you do leave the house keep them in an easily explained area (specific bag you keep for locksport meetings, etc) and not concealed somewhere.