What is a "universal keyed" master 1 or 3?

[silent]

Are these pins any weaker in strength than normal ones? Ive tried for kicks on a few olderlocks (my own) to shear the pins but the pins never break.

[Kodack]

I don't think so. In the case of my Kwikset the pins were brass and hard as hell, and the lock itself was soft and leadlike. If one were to try to shear with torque I'm guessing the lock body will shear first and the pins will be hapilly sitting there in one piece.

HOwever, I'm guessing that you might use excessive torque on one of these locks to 'loosen' the tolerances which would make raking and picking easier.

[locksmistress]

I have some personal experience with these critters - we see them pretty regularly. I haven't opened them up so I'm making some inferences from experience here:

When you whack them to set the combination you put in the key and then use a metal cylinder with a slot in it that goes over the key so you can transfer force directly to the plug. It keeps you from hitting the key at all. Then you whack the ever-loving ___ out of it.

If you're not agressive enough, it doesn't work. Same force as you would apply to a 6 penny nail if you wanted to sink it in 3 hits or less. Not crazy hard, but quite a bit harder than one might hit a lock one wasn't trying to destroy.

The torque wrench that's beefy enough to compromise this shearline driectly is going to compromise the bejeezus out of the plug first.

Kodack suggested:

excessive torque on one of these locks to 'loosen' the tolerances

I would estimate that excessive amounts of binding torque would exacerbate the serrated pin condition and render the lock completely inoperable before it would alter the tolerances on the shear line. The plug and bible of these cylinders are designed to retain their integrity while the pins shear off via hammer. The pins are designed to be sheared. Intermediate force appears to just bend them around and sieze up the lock.

We sell these locks, we 'key' these locks, Master has a 100% gaurantee, and we send back a fair number that just don't work out quite right. They function sort of intermediately but they sell well so we keep them around.

[32768]

Thanks locksmistress!

In addition to all that, I realized that the last (furthest back) top pin need not be serrated or breakable. It must be up inside the bible until the lock is whacked so it can be on top of the last pin once it's pushed back. So, the last top pin could be made out of hardened steel if they really wanted to stop people from compromising this lock by twisting the plug.

[DanD]

The easier way to key these locks is with a tool made by Master for the purpose that has a long handle you rotate, pushing the plug indirectly (like a vise). The locks don't tend to last as long as others because of bits of metal that remain in the lock after the pins are forced into place.

[logosys]

I have a question. What would keep someone from applying a "mighty pull" and shear the pins again?

[Kodack]

Or what would stop someone from using a shim, or any of the other countless ways to get around a lock.

It's all up to the sneakiness/technique that you favor. Most of us (I think) would prefer to open a lock without breaking it so we pick and rake, or shim.

A power drill, or hammer, would likely get the same result but with brute strength instead of finesse.

[randmguy]

It is possible to re-shear the pins with a wrench and a decently hardened piece of metal. Honestly though, its not markedly easier than just breaking the cylinder on a normal master #3. I just tried this to see if it made a difference ...I code cut a a shallow key 2121 and tried forcing that one to turn. It seemed to need slightly less force than any of the others I just ruined...With a sample group of one (and no torque wrench) it may just have been my imagination though. These are some photos of a disassembled Master 3UP.



It's not readily apparent in any of these photos but the fifth pin position on the plug is only a small cross section of the plug with the pin driven in to provide the last driver pin when it is sheared off.

I have never noticed that these locks work any rougher than a normal master lock but I have noticed that the key is harder to insert and remove on most of them due to the plug sliding in the cylinder. I don't think it is possible to pull the plug out and re-cut it to a different key either. My tool punches the ring on the bottom of the padlock down slightly around the face of the cylinder.

[Squelchtone]

I ran into one of these 3UP (Master padlock #3 Universally Pinned) tonight.

At first I thought part of the cylinder had fallen out, but then I saw 3UP and thought it might stand for something like "User Pinned". It was easy to open, took 5 seconds with an SO slimline L rake.

It's interesting to read above that once you break the pins at the sheer line, you can't pull the cylinder out for repinning. Interesting design..


Squelchtone