help ID'ing dimple lock manufacturer W/PICS!

[atticRR]

Hey all,
I purchased this steering lock at work today for eighty something cents purely because it came with a dimple lock. Its branded 'The Gorilla Grip" and as you can see from the pics it has a dimple key that is reversable like an auto key. Im curious if anyone knows who actually makes the lock mechanism. I'm guessing its likely made in good old china. I only found one LP101 thread that mentions this device and it had a cruciform key so im hoping the community can shed some light on this.

Im planning on cutting the lock itself off the stupid anti theft bar for easier handling, maybe i'll have a go at the rivets, hopefully ending up with just the lock-maybe not though.

Are dimple locks considered an advanced topic? I'm thinking it is since i don't really see any discussion about picking them.

[Squelchtone]

It's a generic version of the KABA 8 lock. The patent ran out years ago, and they moved onto KABA 14, KABA 20, KABA Gemini, KABA Quattro, KABA Penta

very nice find.. it's pickable, just dont turn it more than 90 degrees or all the goodies will end up in the keyway, pins, springs, everything =)

http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=47220

Thanks for sharing that!

Squelchtone

[atticRR]

thanks squelchtone,
'preciate the prompt response. Im pretty excited to have a KABA clone, it sure is awesome working in the intake section of a major thrift store!

Thanks for the tip on the 90 degree turn, i would have been devastated to have it drop its guts all over. I'll let everyone know if i get it picked.

Based on the link you gave me i'm assuming this is not considered an advanced topic, correct? if not ill try to explain how (if) i pick it. If it is advanced i'll just show a pic of it picked.

thanks again,

R

[atticRR]

wow, i picked it in less than a minute! I havent tried to replicate it yet. I wanted to take a pic first. standard procedure is for a quick first openening- maybe a few more, then a whole bunch of overthinking and few openings for a bit. Oh well, im happy now!



R

[MacGnG1]

NICE!! i have sold a bunch of kaba8 mortises but no one has picked them yet, myself included. any tips?

[atticRR]

i got it again when i tried last night. I guess this isn't considered advanced so i'll tell you how ive managed to do it.

Ive done no research on how these locks work other than looking at the key and feeling around the keyway. I'm assuming that the lock is simpler than it looks because the key works either way. All the pins are on one half of the keyway and theres two on the narrow axis. All i used was a diamond and a tension wrench, i put a little pressure w the wrench and just inserted the diamond in the lock and gently walked it down. I felt a few pins set then it turned.

As you can see I really have no good input on the lock yet.... I'll keep working on it and try to figure out whats really going on and report back. Sorry i dont have more info right now, I just got home from a day at work in 104 weather and my brain is cooked right now!

R

[Evan]

Ive done no research on how these locks work other than looking at the key and feeling around the keyway. I'm assuming that the lock is simpler than it looks because the key works either way. All the pins are on one half of the keyway and theres two on the narrow axis. All i used was a diamond and a tension wrench, i put a little pressure w the wrench and just inserted the diamond in the lock and gently walked it down. I felt a few pins set then it turned.

@atticRR:

It is not that these locks are overly simple, it is that they were designed for convenience on the part of the user... They are "double sided" as in the cuts are identical on each pair of opposing sides/edges of the key... This is so that the key can be inserted and operate in the lock no matter whether it is inserted right-side up or up-side down... Much in the way double-sided automotive keys (when not worn on one edge or specially cut with different bittings on each side to operate two vehicles) can be used with either side up or down, as the pins in the lock only are in contact with one side of the key...

If you had a real Kaba 8 cylinder the pins on the lock would be activated by one set of the cuts on each of the wide sides and by one of the narrow edges, taking your key from your pic for example in a real Kaba 8 say the left side of the cylinder would interact with/respond to the row of cuts with the two large dimples and the two smaller ones and the right side of the cylinder would interact with/respond to the row of cuts with the one large dimple and the three smaller ones, the edge would interact/respond to pins at the top of the keyway...

These locks are master keyed without using master pins in the locks whatsoever, in fact master keyed Kaba dimple locks use the absence of a pin in a carefully planned pattern of chamber positions along with the deepest dimple cut on the corresponding bitting positions on the change keys intended to operate each uniquely "keyed" cylinder in the system... It is called "positional master keying" and makes use of the "rotating constant" patterns and method of master keying... The older Kaba cylinders only use four bitting depths...

There is more specific information as wall as illustrated examples of how a couple of different Kaba 20 keying systems work in the .pdf file I sent to your e-mail, I hope you find it useful to your research on these locks...

~~ Evan

[cledry]

The tolerances in these locks are so loose they usually pick very easily.

[atticRR]

evan, thanks for that. I found it very interesting reading, will definately necessitate a re-read. It did help me to understand better what was going on in there.

Cledry, thats what i was thinking, bout the tol;erances. I figured i might be able to pick one of these-with a lot of time trying, this one just opened with a minimum of fiddling around. And it was definately fiddling with just a bit o pickin thrown in for good measure!!!! HA!

R