Tools and Techniques for FireFighters.?

[compleks]

Greetings all.

Many years ago I dabbled with some very basic lock picking. I made a few simple tools out of street sweeper bristles etc... I wasn't great but made some progress.
I recently joined the fire brigade, and I believe having some tools and knowledge in entry could be very valuable. Obviously in emergency situations the big tools get the job done (e.g. Sledge hammers, crow bars etc...)
But there are plenty of situations which are not time critical and minimising damage is appreciated.

So, I'm wondering what tools and techniques you might recommend for a firefighter?

***
Some common scenarios might include.
- Children locked in cars (This may or may not be time critical depending on the state of the child)
- Smoke alarms operating at residence, but no one is home (No signs of fire, but we have to gain access to be sure)

I don't have much experience on the job yet, so I can't give too many examples. But I'm sure you guys have plenty of experience and ideas which could benefit those willing to learn.

Look forward to hearing your opinions.

[Evan]

@compleks:

Welcome to LP101...

The last time this identical topic came up it was deemed advanced because of the discussion of destructive entry techniques...

This thread will more than likely be locked or moved to the advanced section by a moderator...

~~ Evan

[MBI]

Boy, most firemen I know look for ANY excuse to kick in a door.
It's sort of one of the unofficial job benefits.

However, if you truly do find yourself in situations where you need to make entry and time is not of the essence, the techniques would be no different for a fireman as for any locksmith on a lockout call. Opening a home or business, I'd just pick it like any other lock.
Here is a link to some information which you might find helpful. It can direct you to the posts which are relevant to someone just getting started with lockpicking.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10528

Due to forum rules, we can't discuss auto lockout techniques outside of the advanced forum, but here are the requirements if you'd like access. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2474
There are some bypass methods available in certain circumstances to speed entry into homes and businesses, but those are also restricted to the advanced forum.
As for a child locked in a car, having worked in law enforcement I can tell you those calls were always a treat. That situation was always regarded as an emergency if the child was too young to just unlock the door for you. Excellent excuse to break something.

Welcome to the forum, I hope you find the lockpicking information useful.

[compleks]

Haha. Don't get me wrong, kicking in doors and smashing windows are two of my favourite things. But can't always be justified
When I was practising I got to the point where I could pick my front door lock in about 5 seconds. Obviously it's a cheap lock and I was familiar with it, but I've seen how efficient some of you guys are. It would definitely come in handy to have some of your skills.

Apologies for posting in the wrong section.

I guess I will get myself a good beginners pick set and start practising again. Maybe one day I'll be granted access to the secrets of the advanced forum

Cheers all!

[MarkMcGrath]

I got two DVD's about two days ago from http://www.lockpickshop.com located in your upper right corner. One came in just fine and it happened to be the auto one. Having a family of firefighters in my background the less destruction that happier the people, and in the esecence of car opening the DVD Smart Opens was a great intro. It wasn't anything I didn't already know, and two people can open a car door faster then you can smash a window, clear debris and get in. I will recommend that video hands down, as none of the techniques are that amazing or advanced, but basic criminal, or basic locksmith.

The Smart Opens home edition unfortuantly came blank to me, and for some reasons I can't contact the shop to replace it(something about this network blocking the most oddball crap like the image you read to certify you are human). Although from the comments on the box, I would say that would clear up most of other issues.

In regards to the videos it seems he is more then willing to tell you the faults, and then how to fix the problems if he can. He commented in the car video he did the same thing in the house one. Fun informative and not overly expensive, but educational none the less. This should help you.

[MBI]

I guess I will get myself a good beginners pick set and start practising again. Maybe one day I'll be granted access to the secrets of the advanced forum
Cheers all!

Practice certainly is the key. Try to pick up an assortment of different locks to broaden your skills. I assume from the terminology you use you're in the UK. If so, we have a number of members there, I bet you can easily find one who can sell you some locks to practice with at a decent price.

[compleks]

Thanks for all the advice and the warm welcome.

MBI, I'm actually from Australia.

I'll dig around in the garage tomorrow and find my old kit. Just a bunch of old padlocks and some home made picks. Very ghetto haha.
I just placed an order for these:
http://www.lockpickshop.com/PXS-14.html

Also ordered a few slimline picks which I may need down here. Would have been a good deal if it weren't for shipping!

That will keep me busy for now.
Auto entry seems to have advanced beyond my coat hanger technique. So until I get a grasp on door locks I'll be relying on brute force, and loving every bit of it

Cheers all.

[minifhncc]

In my opinion fire fighters shouldn't use NDE.

First of all, you don't know until you've gained access whether it is life threatening or not. Also, to succeed in lock picking one generally needs to be calm and under no pressure. It is unlikely that you will have that situation as a fire fighter.

You need to also take into account that not all locks can be picked.

More importantly, I don't know what picking technique you're going to use. But generally one uses SPP'ing with lock picks and that takes a while for most and therefore it would be unsuitable for use as a fire fighter.

[H. Flashman]

Hello there,
I would like to chime in with my own personal experience on this matter. It's not exactly the same situation but I think it's relevant. The key word here is liability.
I worked as a maintenance engineer at a hospital for a few years. Our department had keys to nearly every lock in the facility. It was an old building though and there were always a few oddball cabinets and doors with mystery locks. By law, there were just two areas we were not supposed to have access to. These were the room where narcotics are kept and any room/desk/cabinet containing confidential patient information. Now obviously, a group of mechanically minded guys with detailed blueprints of the building and a shop full of tools can bypass just about any lock. If we couldn't shim the door, we could probably pop a ceiling tile and climb right in. Also, I like to pick locks for a hobby and you can imagine the possibilities with a building containing hundreds of different locks from dozens of makers.
To cut to the point:
Whenever we needed to access a secure area we always called a locksmith. This way, there was always a paper trail whenever we needed to bypass a lock or have a key cut. As I said before, it's all about liability. If a few oxycodone tablets were to vanish, we could be safe from suspicion. If inspectors found that patient records had been mishandled, we knew no one would point a finger at us. In short, you could expose yourself and your fire department to all sorts of liability issues by picking locks. If you need to gain entry and it's not an emergency, call a licensed professional and get a receipt.

[MBI]

Well said, Mr. Flashman.

[compleks]

Well said indeed, and valid points too.

I do, or at least I used to enjoy lock picking as a hobby. So regardless of occupation I'm still looking forward to picking it up again (unintentional pun).
I still think there might be some situations when it could be a useful skill set. Wether or not I'd be comfortable doing it in public might be another story.

Either way, a lot of practise before I have to worry about any of that. All for fun in the time being.
Cheers.

[Evan]

Well said, Mr. Flashman.

Agreed...

I am surprised at the direction this thread went in...

Totally different from the last time it was brought up...

~~ Evan

[nothumbs]

The FDNY Forcible Entry Reference Guide is available online (I won't post links but easy to find). Most firefighters don't have time to pick locks. The guide discusses both tools and techniques.

[Evan]

And there it is...

The last time this came up and the reference to the above guide was made the discussion was considered advanced...

~~ Evan

[nothumbs]

Don't recall that. Interesting that just referencing a document is considered advanced. I've seen other topics where references are made, with no pointers, and that has been acceptable. Ah well, the boundaries of acceptable here have often been subject to interpretation by the current mods. As always, I defer to them.