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by hytuu12345 » 10 Aug 2012 23:34
Well, sorry for creating another thread. I wasn't sure how to edit my previous thread and the title of the thread wasn't going to get me anywhere with this issue.
I've made a short hook and half diamond, both stencils were from the templates section in the forum. My issue is that I've got 5 different Locks that I took apart. And I realised that I've got 2 kinds of locks. One kind has got a straight 'keyway' in the area the pins would sit on. Another kind has got a sort of 45 degrees angle instead of the straight ones. The straight ones were easy to reach into, but the 45 degrees ones are giving me all sorts of problems.
First up, my picks are made correctly to the specifications given in this forum, so I don't think it's an issue with the way i made my picks, more of an issue with the size of the picks, with regards to the 45 degree locks.
I've yet to find out how to upload pictures, so I know you guys would probably be asking me to upload pictures of my locks to give you guys a better understanding. I could either email you the pictures or something if you need images.
So just asking, do you guys sorta recommend slimlines for such locks or what do you do to counter these locks, or simply just locks that a normal short hook or half diamond can't reach into.
Thanks.
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by hytuu12345 » 10 Aug 2012 23:42
Oh, I also forgot to ask. I've seen that most videos and pictures of locks used on practice sets have got the pins dropping down from the top, so while picking you have to reach upwards with a pick.
But the locks that I have, if assembled correctly on a door, has got pins facing upwards, so this way the difference is that I have to push the pick downwards to pick the lock and to push the pins down,instead of what most people do which is to push the pins upwards.
Just wana ask if it's normal for my locks to have upwards facing pins or do I just flip them around to practice?
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by gibson » 11 Aug 2012 8:05
where do you live? in north america the pins are usually mounted on top, while the rest of the world seem to use locks with the pins on the bottom. if you're outside of north america, pins on the bottom are the norm. have you tried polishing your picks? run your fingernail across the edges of your pick. are there any rough spots? if there are, get some fine sandpaper in various grits, and polish off any rough spots. work from 400 to 600 to 1000 grits. you could go to 1200 or 1500 for a mirror finish. also, how thick is the material you used? most of the commercial manufacturer use stock that is .020 in to .025 inches. some use thinner (peterson slenders) or thicker (southord max), but .020 to .025 is average. thumbs up though on making your own equipment, keep it up!
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by Solomon » 11 Aug 2012 8:12
Really gonna need to see some pics of the tools you made and the keyway you're talking about. All I can say for now is it's probably just a matter of practice. You can pick around the majority of keyways without any trouble, you just have to push on the pins from an angle. You don't have to snake around the warding or anything, not unless the pins are very deep setting anyway. Picking with pins on the bottom is exactly the same principle; a lot of people actually prefer to pick that way, myself included. I find it comfier, can pick just as well both ways but with padlocks I usually opt to pick downwards if I can. As for door locks, pick it the way it'd be mounted. It's more realistic, and better practice. 
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by keysman » 11 Aug 2012 8:20
hytuu12345 wrote: ...I've yet to find out how to upload pictures, so I know you guys would probably be asking me to upload pictures of my locks to give you guys a better understanding. I could either email you the pictures or something if you need images. Thanks. viewtopic.php?t=6558
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by Solomon » 11 Aug 2012 8:37
If you're not sure what site to upload the pics to you could create a photobucket account, or just bung them on imgur. That'd be quicker tbh.
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by atticRR » 11 Aug 2012 9:02
what kind of locks are you picking? Door locks or padlocks? all the door locks i have come with keyways that are substantially larger than the padlocks i own. The picks i purchased (southourd-standard size) work fine in the door locks, when i place them in a padlock it gets real ugly real fast in all but the largest of the keyways. I have now made a few picks that are much smaller than the factory made ones and thay work great. the more room you you have ine inside the lock the easier it is to manipulate the pins and not get hung up on the warding-this is especially true the deeper into the lock you get. The shaft on my factory hook gets wider toward the handle, like a wedge, and if im deep in a narrow keyway i lose a lot of mobility because of that. Since youre making your own picks, just slim them down, make sure youre shaft is parallel and narrow and absolutely make sure that u have thoughroughly sanded to AT LEAST 800 grit. a proper pick is a beautiful thing and opening a lock with a pick you made is awesome! Good luck and good picking!
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by hytuu12345 » 12 Aug 2012 6:24
 here it is, the pictures of the locks that i find really hard to reach into. and pictures of my picks. well they're the first two picks i've made so they're not perfect. to Gibson, yes sir, i sanded it down with 400, 600 and gridded sandpaper. it no wonder mine was so rough and not shiny. i guess i'll sand it with 1200 and 1500 soon. didnt have much time(and patience) to sand it further, hence it's appearance. but it's smooth to my touch and does not have rough spots, it's smooth. as for the thickness, i dont have the right tool to measure it, but i made it out of a hacksaw blade which was from germany, it says ' << 12" 18-T Super hss bi-metal, FYF BRAND germany'.
i live in asia, so i guess i should be used to it now. Never really paid attention to locks before i had an interest in lockpicking. as for carpentry, before i started, ive never really paid attention to the workmanship of ikea's products and stuff. but now that i'm in the carpentry business, i find myself scrutinizing laminates and stuff. weird habit haha. thanks for the thumbs up too, gibson! 
also, thanks keysman for the link!
Solomon sir, I know i'll probably get scolded for not searching in the forum, but i just had to ask, besides door locks(which is what i have right now, probably 6-8 sets to practice on), what else do you guys recommend me to practice on as i get better? right now i'm using the same lock with just 2 pins to practice and to get the hang of it.
To atticRR, i'm picking door locks, and yeah i'll sand them up with finer gridded sandpapers. but i'll probably be making new ones which are better looking with better workmanship. the ones i have right now were made in a hurry, so i was literally grinding the sides off till i get the shape in a hurry. plus i did not file it down to a straight line, so it's shaft is a little 'curvy'.
as for my problem, the picture on the extreme top left is the lock that i'm having problems with. it's keyway is too tiny for me and i have hardly any room to move my pick around.
also, my workshop has got a few used hacksaw blades. not wanting to throw it away, do u think i could use these used hacksaw blades to make my picks, or will there be any issue at all with using used blades? overall it's ok in condition, just that it's got a bit of rust but i've sanded it away and it looks just like the two picks on the image that i have uploaded. and a bit of scratches on a few spots, but overall, it's condition is... probably 7/10 with 10 being mint.
once again, really guys thanks for the help! really appreciate it!
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by raimundo » 12 Aug 2012 9:30
bi metal hacksaw blades means that the piece is made of two metals, there are two different functions that have to be served, one is the cutting of metal that takes sharp and hardened metal, but this must be mounted on a blade that does not have brittleness and is capable of flexing without breaking the bond between the two metals. a hacksaw does not flex as much as a band saw, and Members have made excellent picks from bandsaw metal stock as well.
because of the bi metal nature of your stock, you must plan your project to avoid any problems that might give you.
About grinding, this is a usefull way to waste off mass around your project but you must quench frequently in cold water to prevent heat build up. if the metal goes blue, then quenching can cause hardening, but if you avoid any color change in the metal, (straw yellow is the first color change,) this will allow you to get close to the pattern that you want, but to do the final cuts to shape it, you should use files as they are easier to control and get straight pickshafts and etc. You do not want to use files on hardened metal, and if you find that your project is colored blue and is causeng severe dulling of the file, its not going to work.
I often see people on this forum recommending allen wrenchs as material for tensors, but the refer to "filing an allen wrench" which in my opinion any "real" allen wrench will just dull the file and not get much of a scratch from it. for allen wrenches grinding will work, filing will not.
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by MortimerDuke » 12 Aug 2012 10:35
raimundo wrote: because of the bi metal nature of your stock, you must plan your project to avoid any problems that might give you.
Rai- exactly what must be done differently when working with bimetal stock?
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by hytuu12345 » 12 Aug 2012 11:42
raimundo wrote:About grinding, this is a usefull way to waste off mass around your project but you must quench frequently in cold water to prevent heat build up. if the metal goes blue, then quenching can cause hardening, but if you avoid any color change in the metal, (straw yellow is the first color change,) this will allow you to get close to the pattern that you want, but to do the final cuts to shape it, you should use files as they are easier to control and get straight pickshafts and etc. You do not want to use files on hardened metal, and if you find that your project is colored blue and is causeng severe dulling of the file, its not going to work.
just to add, i find that using a pair of pliers gives me better grip on the hacksaw blade. so on one hand i will be holding onto the pair of pliers, and on the other, i'll be pushing the blade into the grinder to get the shape that i want. so the pliers hand is more of grip. as for quenching, because my fingers are in contact with the hacksaw blade, when it gets hot, i'll dip it in the cup for a quench. i've yet to go to the extent of reaching yellow/blue on my project. Thanks for the input my friend! considering to get needle files but they're extremely overpriced over at my hardware stores. one set of 6 can cost as much as 50 bucks. but it's diamond coated/plated or something. so i guess that explains the price. nevertheless, i remember seeing two sets in my dad's office. i'll probably be using his in the near future. hahaha. and yeah, i'm curious as to what must be done differently to my pair of BI metal hacksaw blades. dang it did i buy the wrong hacksaw blade.
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by Solomon » 12 Aug 2012 17:28
Those are standard "universal" keyways, based on the original Yale 1A. Probably 80% of euros you run into will have a keyway almost identical to that, some are tighter than others but you can pick around them just fine with regular sized picks. It's just practice. The ones you're dealing with actually aren't that tight, believe it or not. When I first started picking I had a hard time picking around them but only because I was thinking about it too much. It'll just come naturally after a while. If you're having genuine trouble getting your pick around the warding, grind the shaft a little thinner. Your picks look perfectly fine to me though. The only specific advice I can give you is to tension the bottom of the keyway, ie. the same side the pins are on. That way you'll have more space for the pick to float around in. The cisa will have spool pins so keep that in mind when picking that one, not sure about the others but they probably just have regular pins. Some guys actually find spools easier to pick at first because of the exagerrated feedback, but everyone is different. Good luck and have fun, try not to get frustrated. It'll come in time 
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by atticRR » 12 Aug 2012 18:38
i'll second that your picks look fine. i would still make the shaft thinner-the part nearest the handle. as the pick goes deeper in the lock the shaft gets wider-wider-wider, then when youre at your deepest ou end up with a restricted range of motion. i also agree with what solomon said about where to put the tension, you will have so much more room if you have your tension wrench on the same side as the pins. sometimes you have to modify the wrench, shorten it so it doesnt rest against the first pin, and give it some texture with a pair of wire cutters so it wont slip out. practice is key here, the more youre in those locks the more comfortable you will be picking. practice practice practice!!!! and have fun(when your not getting frustrated!)
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by hytuu12345 » 4 Sep 2012 3:09
Hi guys sorry for the late reply, have been occupied by work. Anyways, just a follow up observation. I've worked my way up to picking 4 pins now, and I realise that my pick has a gradual bend at around the shaft. I find that I tend to apply a little bit of pressure sideways on the picks when I'm feeling and pushing the pins up. Do you guys also encounter this issue of having slightly bent picks?
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by Squelchtone » 4 Sep 2012 7:35
Solomon wrote:If you're not sure what site to upload the pics to you could create a photobucket account, or just bung them on imgur. That'd be quicker tbh. http://tinypic.com doesnt get any easier for uploading a pic and pasting an [IMG] tag here. (seems to be a photobucket owned portal / site)
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