How do I disassemble a courier bag lock?

[satellites]

I'm new to lock picking and have been happily picking away at all the locks I can get my hands on. I was at work today and someone had lost the key to a courier bag used to hold sensitive material. Unfortunately, I couldn't save the day because they had already cut the bag open to access the contents, but I asked for and was given the bag and lock as a practice piece. It took me a while, but I managed to pick the lock, which can be seen here, and can now reliably pick it in under a minute. It has no discernible identifying marks, and the bag fragments I was given didn't have any markings, either. It is a pretty standard courier bag, though.

I'd like to take the lock apart but can't really figure out how. I've disassembled standard door locks without trouble, but I can't get the cylinder of this lock out of the hull. If you look at the picture, there's a bolt (I think that's the correct term) on the left that moves in and out as the cylinder is turned. There's also a thin metal tab on the right that remains stationary. I pushed the thin metal tab so that it rests inside of the hull, but the bolt doesn't ever get to a point where it clears the hull so that the cylinder can be pulled out. I've tried pressing the bolt in and forcing it, but didn't have any luck.

I was hoping to disassemble this lock because it has a very different feel than the other ones I've picked. It has six pins, and although none of them are security pins (as far as I can tell--I have yet to work with a lock with security pins), I'd like to see how it compares internally to others so that I can hone my skills a bit more. Any help is appreciated.

[Josh66]

What is that 'tail cap' piece? It looks like it may come off. (I wouldn't force it though.)

No roll pins or anything like that through the side somewhere?

[satellites]

Here is a picture from the rear of the lock. As far as I can tell, the hull is a solid piece, and there's no break between the tail piece and the rest of the hull. I even took a pair of pliers to it and tried to twist it apart without luck. When I run a tool between the tailpiece and the hull it doesn't catch on any breaks or anything, so I'm pretty confident that it's all one piece.

As far as I can tell, the tail piece is there primarily to hold the lock in what I'll descriptively call the lock holder, which you can see here. There was a snap ring around the tail piece which retained the main lock body in the lock holder. The lock holder was then riveted to the bag, the remnants of which are still attached.

Unfortunately, I don't know exactly how roll pins are implemented in locks, but there isn't any evidence of anything holding the cylinder within the hull other than the bolt and the metal tab opposite the bolt. As far as I can tell, the bolt is the only thing preventing the cylinder from being removed, but I can't get the bolt to move in any further.

[Josh66]

As far as I can tell, the bolt is the only thing preventing the cylinder from being removed, but I can't get the bolt to move in any further.

That's what it looked like to me too - I just thought that there might be a roll pin or something holding it in - knock that out and then pull the bolt out.

That little square tab appears to be the only thing holding the bolt in. You may not be able to take it apart non-destructively. I bet if you removed that tab/cover thing, the bolt would come out. It looks like that is the only way it could have been assembled. Insert bolt, plug hole.

[satellites]

Nope, definitely no roll pin.

The metal tab clears the hull without problem (as far as I can tell), but the bolt itself won't retract far enough to clear. I understand how some things can be put together so there's no non-destructive way to take them apart, but I'm having trouble seeing how that might be accomplished with this lock. Can you expound on how you think it's assembled?

[MBI]

You describe it as a six pin lock. Are you sure it's not a wafer lock, because that's what it looks like. It could have a control wafer at the back of the keyway inside, that when it's retracted when the lock is in the unlocked position would allow the plug to be pulled out from the front. In which case, it probably just leaves the locking bolt behind so you wouldn't need to push the bolt past it's slot in the rear.

There's also a pretty good chance it's designed not to come apart.

[Altashot]

Most likely, it has a retainer at the back as MBI stated.
However, in my experience, the bottom of the wafer is often cut away and can not be hooked.
Sometimes the only way to press the retainer is to drill a small hole in the housing.

In many cases you can feel the last wafer cell where the retainer is with a pick.
It is then a matter of using your pick as a reference to determine where to drill.
A 1/16 hole should suffice.

[satellites]

Are you sure it's not a wafer lock, because that's what it looks like.

No, I'm not sure. I've read about wafer locks, but I'm still not clear on how to identify them and just how they work. I'll definitely read some more about them today and hopefully get a better understanding. I'll mess around with the lock this evening to try to see if there's a control wafer, but how exactly do I identify a control wafer? Is it just an additional wafer behind the other six?

Also, if it needs to be drilled, I'm assumming you drill in perpendicular to the cylinder at the shear line?

Sorry, I know these are noob questions, I just don't have much experience. Like I said, I'll do some reading today, but any additional help here is appreciated.

[satellites]

To follow up on the post I just made, I found a good discussion of control wafers here. I don't have the lock handy right now, but I'll check for a control wafer this evening. I don't think it has one though, since I had my pick all the way back in the keyway last night and didn't notice anything, which I guess means that it's probably not meant to be disassembled. If that's the case, I'll think I'll just let it be rather than drill it out, as I'd like to be able to practice on it in the future.

[satellites]

Alright, as a final follow-up, I checked for a control wafer and, as far as I can tell, there isn't one on this particular lock. It looks like this one just wasn't designed to be taken apart, so I'll just keep it as a practice piece.

[MacGyver101]

It sounds like you've already had a good look for a control wafer... but, if it helps, I'd posted some photos in an older thread that show control wafers and how they work. As MBI noted, the control wafer (if it's there) should only move if the lock is in the unlocked position.

[satellites]

That was a fascinating read, thanks!

I checked and re-checked for a control wafer just in case, but alas, this is a pretty simple lock. I can now easily scrub it open in about a second or so, but it's still a fun practice piece.

[Kridge]

I'm going to hope the US Patent office comes through in a pinch. These patent documents look like they may be helpful. Unfortunately, I currently cannot view the patent images on this machine, so I'm judging based on the text, and not sure how helpful the images may or may not be, but I'm hoping they're worthwhile.
The first link below is for an upgrade to a locking courier bag by MMF Industries, but check out the links for the references cited patent documents. Some are supposed to include details about the actual lock, and a couple are the actual patent documents for a lock itself. I'd post all of the links here...but given their URL lenght....it's kind of an obnoxious list for a forum post..

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5820267.PN.&OS=PN/5820267&RS=PN/5820267

[GWiens2001]

Ok, lets see you smartie-pants get thisnthing back together!

[MrWizard]

You probably already have the answer but I'll put in my 2 cents. From what I see from the pic the right side looks to have a staked retainer that holds the plug in the housing. You have to remove the punched over area's to take out the rectangle piece I could be wrong.

Richard