Commercial Masterlocks

[thesheerline]

It's painful to even post this, as "Masterlock" threads are done to death, however, after a lot of searching on this site and others with no luck, I had to post it.

My main question is: How (if at all) are Commercial Masters different component-wise than the ordinary blue-ribbon Master lock? I've asked a locksmith before and all he could tell me was that they have 'modified components', and couldn't elaborate. I'm guessing one of the main differences is that the commercials have much tighter tolerance than the regular Masterlocks. I've found that the tension needs to be close to dead-on, to the point that reducing the torque by the lightest touch will drop any set pins, and a touch too heavy and they won't bind at all. I've picked over a dozen of these, numbers 1 through 5, and they all share that characteristic.

Can someone tell me what the story is with these, and exactly how they differ from the ordinary Masterlock? I know the newer ones have the "bump-resistant" back-pin. Does that feature make picking more difficult? Also, do they ever have spools (the #1s through 5)?

[raimundo]

I have a master lock that has a second plastic belt at the top of the body that says commercial on it
the only visible difference is the drillbreaker in front of the keyway, and this lock opens super easy with extra short hook or it opens with a snapper on the first hit.

it is old and has the old appearance, so it does not have any of the anti bump stuff said to be in the master locks now.

Im guessing that yours may be newer and may have stronger springs on the pins.

that gives me an idea, we need to get some genius out there to invent a tool that simply measures spring pressure.

As in Ace II, a mix of springs could be quite a difficult anti picking anti bumping fix.

So heres a contest, if the mods want to try it,
get people to invent and test spring pressure guages,

pehaps a device that measures to the exact bottom of pins with a scale printed on the handle so you know exactly how deep it is in the lock
Use a milimeter scale or like that, so it can be read and does not have to be dedicated to the spaceing of just one brand of lock.

and perhaps a hardend steel hook with a pin saddle on the tip that transfers the spring read out to some kind of dial or other torque measuring device. hard steel eliminates any bending that might change the readout before it gets to the dial.

Hope this gives people ideas for making their own.

Make the contest a long period of time so more people can participate and early models can be modified by what is learned.

[Josh66]

So heres a contest, if the mods want to try it,
get people to invent and test spring pressure guages,

There is an existing tool, similar to a tensiometer, that I think would work - but I can't remember what it's called (which is making it hard for me to find a picture of one online). We have one at work...

With some modification, I think a tensiometer could work too.

[thesheerline]

I have a master lock that has a second plastic belt at the top of the body that says commercial on it
the only visible difference is the drillbreaker in front of the keyway, and this lock opens super easy with extra short hook or it opens with a snapper on the first hit.

it is old and has the old appearance, so it does not have any of the anti bump stuff said to be in the master locks now.

Im guessing that yours may be newer and may have stronger springs on the pins.

.

Thank you, my fellow lockpicker from the other Twin City

Yes, mine is a newer one with the anti-bump feature, so I think it's safe to assume that any type of "impact" method is out? Also, the springs are quite a bit more resistant than the regular masterlocks. the one I'm getting the feel for now requires fairly heavy tension; as a result, I sometimes need to insert a saw-rake and rock it up and down to finish it off, after SPPing the first pins. I'm starting to think that it's the back pin that requires such force because of the anti-bump pin acting almost like a spool, and that stack#4 (the bump resistant one) is cut at a 1 or 2 (I don't have the key for it), making it extremely difficult to lift with a short hook. I'm going to try and pick it as so, using a short hook, and then try using a long-hook for the back pin to confirm my theory.

[raimundo]

I suppose im gonna have to give money to masterlock now to learn about the new antibump
thing.

[Raymond]

Rai,
The anti bump consists of one pin that fits into the bible with spring but is just too wide to go all the way onto the plug. The pin rests on its wide shoulder with about 15 thousandths of an inch down into the plug hole. The part in the plug hole is cut out like a spool but with a sharp edge at the bottom of the cone. With turning pressure it can actually bind itself very nicely. Usually this space is in the middle and will usually be a shallow key cut. They can be picked but relieving the pressure to move that sharp edge out of the hole drops all the other pins. This example is one to exaggerate light turning pressure so as to not dig the pin into the side of the hole.

[GWiens2001]

Recently bought 2 American 5200GL padlocks that had no spools, but both had one bump-stop pin. They should have stuck with the spools and serrated pins. Had no problem picking these at all. As you know, Master and American are the same company, and are sharing this technology.

[thesheerline]

Recently bought 2 American 5200GL padlocks that had no spools, but both had one bump-stop pin. They should have stuck with the spools and serrated pins. Had no problem picking these at all. As you know, Master and American are the same company, and are sharing this technology.

They are probably using the backwards logic that there are far more criminals bumping locks for illicit purposes than picking. Spool pins can be bumped, just as "Bumpstop" pins can be albeit with a modified bump key..

Anyways, my little experiment was a success. I went in with a long-hook and picked the back, bumpstop pin first, then a few seconds of scrubbing and click*, music to my ears. I could listen to that sound all day

[thesheerline]

Now that I think about it, a Bogata-rake would be perfect for these locks.

Raimundo- are you still selling your custom bogatas, and if so can you link me?

[GWiens2001]

http://www.serepick.com/custom.html

Bought a couple sets myself.

[MrWizard]

I never use a rake pick always a standard hook but those Bogata rakes are very interesting concept never seen those before. I can see how the bent handle could improve the experience.

[knowspicker537]

I've just started trying to pick a master lock magnum, I've heard that a lot of guys make custom tension wrenches to apply top of the keyway tension to overcome the problem with smaller tension wrenches getting caught in an awkward position at the bottom of the keyway.they said it is impossible to put enough tension on the lock because of this. Should I try and make one of these custom tension wrenches or is there another way????

-knowspicker537

[GWiens2001]

I've just started trying to pick a master lock magnum, I've heard that a lot of guys make custom tension wrenches to apply top of the keyway tension to overcome the problem with smaller tension wrenches getting caught in an awkward position at the bottom of the keyway.they said it is impossible to put enough tension on the lock because of this. Should I try and make one of these custom tension wrenches or is there another way????

-knowspicker537

You can easily make your own, or you can buy a Peterson Pry Bar. I use both the Peterson and handmade tension wrenches. But TOK (Top Of Keyway) is my go-to tensioning method, as it frees up the most space in the keyway, making picking easier.

On occasion, the TOK tension wrench can make picking the first pin a little tricky if that first pin has to be lifted up to the top. A decent hook pick should help.

Gordon

[knowspicker537]

Thanks for the reply gordon yeah I'll probably just make my own been doing measurements looks easy enough, that quotes great to haha

-knowspicker537