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inside a Commando lock

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

inside a Commando lock

Postby atticRR » 29 Oct 2012 8:54

recently i acquired a nice new commando padlock. After working with it for a bit i was able rake and then SPP this nice laminated padlock. Overall i would say its a pretty good lock, much better than a Master for sure. After picking my way around it for awhile i realized that i really wanted to see the guts of this lock and since i wasnt able to locate anyone elses autopsy photos i decided that it was up to me. After cringing at the thought of tearing into a really nice, brand new lock, i bit the bullet for your viewing pleasure.

I was pleasantly surprised to discover that it wasnt a simple matter of grinding off the protruding rivets and popping off the plates. Once i had the 6 rivets off and i tried to do some prying i realized two things, the rivets were countersunk into the bottom plate requiring me to go deeper than expected. The second surprise was that it appears as if every plate is also connected by a pattern of four embossed divots (will require more disassembly to confirm this). This was not an easy lock to peel, the rivet pins were reasonably hard and the plates were quite flexible, this combined to make it very difficult to remove the two plates to get to the cylinder.

Below you will see the security pins infesting this lock. Im pretty happy about this personally as ive really been struggling with spools for awhile now and i have opened up this lock quite a few times. Chalk that up to personal victory-yay!

I was hoping to be the one to discover some glaring flaw, like a simple bypass technique a la the american bypass tool. Well, thats not going to work with this lock. The tailpiece fits snugly into the cam (?) that lets the ball bearings do their thing- the lock is open when the plug is turned and thats the only time.

and finally, the commando lock bares all:
Image
Image
in the next pic you can see the four press fit embossed divots i mentioned, they are in a square pattern around where the lock goes (in the blurry part).
Image
I punched punctuation right in the face!
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby femurat » 29 Oct 2012 9:31

Interesting pins in there :P
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby GWiens2001 » 29 Oct 2012 9:56

Thanks for the pics. Those are pretty cool driver pins. It looks like the first spool has flat edges, the second has beveled edges, and the third and fourth are double spools, with the final driver being normal. Nice variety, with different feedback likely with most pins. I also see the spring wire is heavier in some pin stacks than others. Definitely going to be a challenge to pick this baby.

Thanks to your picture and description, now I know what Commando Lock means by interlocking laminated layers. Interference fit on those four tabs? This looks to be an outstanding piece of workmanship.

Question: Once you had the two lamination layers off, did the cylinder just fall out easily, or was it interference fit, too?

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby jeffmoss26 » 29 Oct 2012 10:30

Very nice to see a breakdown. Thanks for sharing!
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby atticRR » 29 Oct 2012 10:44

ah, interference fit! i knew there was a better term for that than i used, thanks! After i removed the two bottom plates the lock came right out. It was very difficult to take this padlock to the grinder, but in the end i couldnt help myself. I think im going to remove all the pins (that hold the lock together) and replace them with nuts and bolts, flatten the bent plates i removed and reassemble the lock. Im glad you guys enjoyed the pics.
I punched punctuation right in the face!
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby zeepia » 29 Oct 2012 13:11

Thanks for sharing! I dropped a tear when reading this... :wink:
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby COMMANDOLOCKUSA » 31 Oct 2012 8:24

Ahhhh, you guys are great! I'm laughing and crying at the same time. You've gone behind the curtain to reveal the wizard and our guts have been exposed! Congratulations on being the first to post photos of the inside of our Commando Lock 44 series. I'm pleased to hear you appreciate our robust construction and that it was difficult to disassemble. We continue to play with material hardness in our designs to incorporate both flexible and rigid components next to eachother. Our 2013 cylinder design promises to challenge your brain even more.

Good job and thanks for posting--I think.

Patrick Smith
Commando Lock
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby atticRR » 31 Oct 2012 9:26

LOL, hey patrick,
It was a seriously difficult decision to do this, i went to the grinder multiple times only to back away in fear. The fact that no one else had done this yet was the deciding factor. Let me be clear, if this lock was hanging from a shackle it would have been really difficult to get this done and there is no way it would have been quiet. I like this lock, which is why i will reassembling it with nuts and bolts so it can live on in my collection as working lock!

definately looking forward to any new lock designs you come up with as well. I love companies that actually manufacture something in the USA!
I punched punctuation right in the face!
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby femurat » 31 Oct 2012 9:32

I liked it so much I've just bought one :)
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby COMMANDOLOCKUSA » 31 Oct 2012 10:29

Thank you Femurat! Your package leaves today. Happy picking!

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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby jeffmoss26 » 2 Nov 2012 8:19

I plan to buy one as well...great looking product!
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby femurat » 22 Nov 2012 10:45

Image

The package arrived yesterday and I was pretty excited, I've been impatient to try these new locks everybody was talking about lately.
First of all let me thanks Patrick for his kindness, it's not easy to find such a nice attitude towards us hobby picker.
It was evening when I managed to open the package, and I was on my sofa after a very busy day.
I quickly read the letter Patrick included in the package wishing me happy picking, and then opened up one brand new PEACEMAKER 44BC padlock.

The padlock feels solid in my hands. The key operates it smoothly, there's no return spring that pushes the key back while you try to open it, I like it.
To pick it blind I avoided to look at the key bittings.

I grabbed my favorite half diamond and a wrench and started playing. After more than five minutes I realized it was not an easy lock.
So I looked for a perfect fit wrench to maximize tension control and started again. I had to concentrate to get a false set, and then to look for the right pin to push to get a few degrees more and more and more. After a few minutes, dunno if five or ten, the plug turned and I was satisfied.

Looking at this padlock I'd compare it to a masterlock magnum, except for the shackle that it's clearly weaker. I would have bought the boron shackle version but it was not available when I bought it. I think the shackle is the weak point of this padlock.
I'm not a bumping expert, so I'll let somebody else talk about this.
The lock is ten times stronger than a masterlock against picking. I hate to say so, but there's no need to improve its pick resistance.
Since this was the first time I had it in my hands I can't tell if it's more or less difficult to pick than an american 5200 with all serrated drivers, one of my favorite padlocks.
I still have another padlock in the envelope. I'll play with this for some time and then try to pick the other one to get a realistic impression on how it compares to an american 5200.

I had a good time, thanks Patrick for the extra padlock. Thanks atticRR for showing the inside of this padlock, you made me want one!

Cheers :)
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby dicey » 22 Nov 2012 19:16

WoW very interesting guts on that one! Interesting pins...

Any idea why they don't use security pins for the upper pins?
I will definitely order some soon.
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby atticRR » 23 Nov 2012 1:29

This wekend I'm going to try a snapper attack with my (likely inferior) copy of raimundos bannanomic snapper. I've been meaning to make one anyway and this is a good reason to do so.

Nice job opening that lock femurat, that are high quality locks at a good price point, dontcha think?
I punched punctuation right in the face!
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Re: inside a Commando lock

Postby femurat » 23 Nov 2012 3:42

Hey dicey, I don't see many locks with security key pins. This padlock looks already pick resistant enough to me... but if Patrick wants to throw in some, he's free to do so.

I agree atticRR, this lock can't be opened by an unskilled picker. Nice price, good quality 8)
I made a snapper some time ago but tried it just a couple of times with a cheap 3 or 4 pins padlock. I may try it with this commando but I'm not an expert so even if my test fails, it would be unfair to say it's snap proof since I'm a noob at snapping. Let us know how your test goes.

Cheers :)
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