Pick feedback

[Lesh18]

Hi

I am trying to teach myself proper SPPing, however, I have problems with feeling the pins properly. I can't really tell if a pin is binding and I can't really tell which pin Im actually dealing with either.

I've got this set of lockpicks
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/6271 ... font-b.jpg

I was just wondering, isn't the problem with the handle? It's rubber/plastic and that may just absorb all vibrations and worsen the feedback? Do locks made of one piece of metal only provide better feedback?

Or what am I doing wrong?
Thank you

[Solomon]

Those picks are just fine, I actually find the feedback from them to be excellent. Was pleasantly surprised with them... I suggest making yourself some proper wrenches though if you haven't already cos the wrench supplied with them is complete rubbish.

The trick is finding the right amount of tension for the lock, I know everyone says to use the minimal amount but it really isn't necessary most of the time. What I do is use a fairly heavy amount of tension to feel for binding then adjust the tension when I'm on that binding pin so that I'm not struggling to move it into place.

Without using any tension at first, stroke the pick towards you with gentle pressure on the pins to get a feel for them springing lightly up and down. Then apply tension, say about the amount it takes to hold down a key on your keyboard and a little more. When you stroke the pick towards you this time you should feel something different. It'll "snag" on one of the pins or hit a little speed bump, as I call it.

From here you wanna roll the pick gently back and forth over that pin to get a feel for where the tip actually is. Up and over, back and forth, to feel for the very center. Come back a tiny amount from that, push on the pin and reduce your tension until it starts to move into place. You'll find there's an amount of tension which gives really clear feedback while at the same time everything moves very easily and smoothly, that's what you're looking for. You'll get a feel for using very light tension in time but this will be much easier to start with. Only problem is you need to have very good control with the pick to avoid oversetting (and be able to identify when something is overset so you can rectify it if and when it does occur).

I go into a lot more detail in my book which you can read for free here. Password is evva3ks.

[catsoup]

Solomon is absolutely right here, tension is everything in feedback.
try to feel the pins with no tension whatsoever, and then with way way too much tension to the point where you can't move them at all, I think this helps illustrate where your feedback is actually coming from. Obviously somewhere in the middle is going to work best for you.

One other tip that I found useful when just starting was to try to count pins, and always know which pin I was working on.
Many of the locks you will practice on will have five pins, but it really helps to feel it out, even if you are pretty sure already. start at the front, feel the spring of each pin and work your way back, count them.

[Lesh18]

alright, i see

and by the way, solomon's guide says that I should not use my wrist, rather the fingers to manipulate to pick. How is this even possible? Do you really hold your wrist stiff and do all the picking with the fingers only? It is kinda possible I guess, but quite clumsy and slow

[Solomon]

Trust me, there's very little movement coming from your wrist when picking. It rotates a little when working around the warding but that's it, what I meant is that the majority of the movement is with your fingers. Don't concentrate on holding your wrist completely still or anything, just make sure not to have your arm flailing about all over the place.

I grip the pick like a pen with my thumb and first 2 fingers, and keep my ring finger resting against the face of the cylinder. It'll take a little while to develop the muscle memory to move the pick back and forth and twist it around the wards like this, but it's very comfortable and efficient.

[Lesh18]

1) Isn't the problem that I hold a lock in my left-hand when I'm picking it with my right hand? Apparently, when I am picking inside a lot of motion is being transferred on the other hand of the lock. May this reduce feedback? Does using a vice give a lot more feedback?

2) I've reassembled my lock leaving only two pins in it. However, I've noticed that I can single pick the lock both ways. 1 and them 2, or 2 and then 1. This means there is more than one (in this case two) binding pin at a time. Is this normal?

Thanks

[GWiens2001]

Having only 2 pins may create more binding if the tension wrench is not turning the plug evenly, but typically if more than one pin is binding, you are using too much tension. Try to see how little tension you can use and still open the lock. I was amazed when trying that method, and still try to practice that method as much as possible. Granted, there are some locks that need more tension to open, but most can be opened with minimal tension.

Keep practicing!

Gordon

[Solomon]

I've noticed with some locks I can pick in a certain order, but more than one pin will bind and I can do it in a different order although it's not necessarily exactly what the lock wants. I have one here that will pick in the order 5-1-2-3-4, but pin 4 actually binds and resets when I set 1 (so it's going 5-4, 1 drops 4, 2-3-4 open). I've noticed that I can deliberately overset pin 1, still set 2-3-4, then releasing tension drops pin 1 and resetting that will open it. Sometimes if I get the tension adjustment just right, pin 1 simply reverse picks to shear and opens. It's weird and defies logic, but yeah. Try not to think about it too much.

As for picking in the hand vs. vice, depends who you ask. A lot of people say it's easier in your hand but personally I find picking static gives me a lot more control and precision. I can still pick well just holding a lock in my hand and I can see where they're coming from, but I much prefer picking in a vice.

[Lesh18]

I have a related question, but don't want to make a new thread, so:

Is it actually possible reassemble the euro double cyllinder lock?
( http://www.slingers1858.co.uk/images/P/ ... der-03.jpg )

My logic says that one can reassemble only one cyllinder and the other one will have to be empty, because once one cylliner is installed it's not physically possible to reassemble the second one. How is it?

[zeepia]

Your lock should have a locking clip in the end of each cylinder. Look if you can put a tool between a gap in the middle to get it out.

[1967pontiacfirebird]

are thier any tricks for getting the right amount of tension because i have a hard time decideing if im using too much or too little tension. i read that using a rubber-band between your finger and the tension wrench will ensure proper tension but does that sound like it will work?

[catsoup]

There are a million tricks for achieving the correct amount of tension, but they usually only work for the person explaining the trick.
using a rubber band will probably provide an adequate amount of tension, but you lose all feedback, so that's not really great advice in my opinion.

Solomon's paper talks about finding the proper range, his advice on this topic is good.

You are using too much tension if you are straining your tools. If you are bending or deforming your picks/tension tools, you are definitely using too much force. Odds are, you aren't using too little tension to open the lock, however you may be using too little tension to feel/learn anything. The more you practice, the less tension you will need to feel the feedback of the lock.

[Lesh18]

regarding the tension:

reassemble the lock leaving just one pin (preferably the first one). Use a pick to apply a mild but constant pressure on the pin, varying the tension. As you vary the tension, you will notice that at some stage, the pin will just nicely give and the lock will open. That will be the correct tension.
Of course, this opens the discussion about the right pressure from the pick, but that should be more intuitive.

[Luissen]

Trust me, there's very little movement coming from your wrist when picking. It rotates a little when working around the warding but that's it, what I meant is that the majority of the movement is with your fingers. Don't concentrate on holding your wrist completely still or anything, just make sure not to have your arm flailing about all over the place.

I know this is kinda old, but could someone clarify, is the actual lifting to be done by the fingers, or the wrists? I find myself levering with my wrists as much as pushing with middle and index fingers (I find a grip almost like using chopsticks to work, but I might be 'doing it wrong' if such a thing exists)

I grip the pick like a pen with my thumb and first 2 fingers, and keep my ring finger resting against the face of the cylinder. It'll take a little while to develop the muscle memory to move the pick back and forth and twist it around the wards like this, but it's very comfortable and efficient.

I tried doing that, and succeeded in making the pick twist in my fingers. Is the thin 'stem' of the pick perhaps a poor place to use this kind of grip, or do I need to grip my pick harder?

[GWiens2001]

You will find that you develop a technique of your own as you go, which will also vary based on the lock you are picking. Play around with the methods and see if any of them seem to work for your hands. Just keep in mind that if you are bending picks, you are likely using too much force with the tension wrench.

Other methods you will find yourself doing is levering off the bottom (opposite the pins for us in the United States, top for most Europeans) of the keyway, levering off the warding of the keyway for narrower, winding keyways, holding the pick level and keeping the pick horizontal as you lift, rotating the pick to work around tight warding so you can even get to the pins, grabbing a large hammer and chisel when the picks just don't seem to be working and your patience runs out, and numerous other methods.

Gordon