Medeco Locks

[Jedilocksmith]

Before I even start talking about these Mecedo locks I just bought off of ebay; Can we discuss them in here or are they considered high security locks and can only be discussed the high security section of the website?

[Squelchtone]

Before I even start talking about these Mecedo locks I just bought off of ebay; Can we discuss them in here or are they considered high security locks and can only be discussed the high security section of the website?

I think the forum cleared them for public discussion when Marc Tobias' Medeco book came out.

I'm glad you're bringing that up. A lot of folks have griped to me lately in private messages stating they are upset that we have an Advanced section, and even more upset that they have to work for it in order to get into the Advanced section. Their thinking is that "this information is all over the internet" so it should just be in the public area here. If they feel that way, then by all means, go Google away and find it somewhere else, but we prefer to keep certain info out of the hands of potential bad guys or the proverbial bored teenager.

Medeco is a good lock, and used to protect many things. A lot of us can pick them pretty easily, but that comes with years of practice. I think it took me 2 years before I picked my first Medeco, so someone joining the forum and asking how to do it will probably not learn how in a week or two. I could tell someone how to rake a Medeco with a half diamond, but if they're never picked a lock and don't know what a shear line is then my instructions would be pretty useless.

Since Admins and mods before me made Medeco an ok topic to dicuss in the public forum, let's go with that for now. Anything picking related is ok, but no drilling, prying, snapping, scoping, decoding, through the keyway bypasses or other bypass discussion please.

I hope to have some good discussion soon with some senior forum members and the mod and admin team so we can redefine what can and cannot be talked about and make that list brief but detailed so there is no more questions, and new users can easily understand what is ok and what is not, so they do not get flamed or have their posts moved to Advanced.

As a final thought, I still think Medeco should not be in the open forums, but when there are books on Amazon telling you every tiny detail about them, it would be silly to keep the information behind locked doors. Just my opinion and not necessarily the opinion of Mr. Picks or Digital Blue.

Thanks
Squelchtone

[Squelchtone]

In case anyone here wonders why we have Advanced sub forums and why some locks are just not talked about in the public areas, please click the link below and read the entire post from beginning to end, and you will know why we are hesitant to help people who just joined and have 1 post and are asking about picking a specific brand or model of lock and do not show any interest in being a hobby picker.

Why lp101 has an Advanced area for certain brands and types of locks:
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=43160

Squelchtone

[Jedilocksmith]

Thanks Squelchtone, I just wanted to take sure before hand. I dont want the "ruffle any feathers" in here as I enjoy this site and dont want to get banned or get a bad reputation or anything. It sounds like I should just buy the book but we'll see where this goes.
First off, let me say that I am NO expert(never picked one) in these types of locks but do know how they operate. With that being said, I wanted a bit more of a challenge so I bought my !st Medeco's off of ebay the other day. One came with a set of keys, a biaxle; And the other has no key, a 51S....20bucks for both, good deal!?
I have a few comments and questions. If any of them are out of line, please feel free not to answer them or let me know.
All I have to say is "wow"....nice locks. I now see what the big deal about these locks is. It has to be the one of the most well built locks out there. Just solid. Big ole fatty key pins cut up all crazy, and some nice mushroom driver pins that look fun too.
Now for the questions, Besides the fact the biaxle has 6pins vs. the 5pins the the 51S...what is the difference between the two? as they both have the sidebars. Reason I ask, the biaxle I have is an IC type lock with no control key so I cant take it part to see the difference. Ill post pics below.
The way the key pins are cut on the bottom are way more different than I am used to. I know they are cut that way so they can rotate in place when the key is inserted. My Q is, for the time being, cant I just remove the sidebar for now and just pick it the same as a regular cylinder lock? Just to get used to the feeling of the pins and make sure im setting them properly without having the sidebar stopping the lock from opening?
Ive aslo heard of people actually being able to rotate the key pins into place with just a hook?! Is that true or just by chance, or, do you really need one of those medecoders?
And on the 51S, the way the sidebar is shaped, it looks like it would pick in one direction alot easier than the other, true?
Sorry for the long winded post, Im sure Ill have more questions coming. http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt12 ... oto-10.jpg http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt12 ... oto-11.jpg http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt12 ... oto-12.jpg http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt12 ... oto-13.jpg

[Squelchtone]

you're 100% correct about them being easier to pick in one direction over the other.

btw, very short history lesson to clear up some misnomers.

There are several flavors of Medeco

Original 1968-1985

BiAxial 1985-2003

M3 2005-current

Some folks think that only Biaxial has the pins that you lift AND twist, when in fact even the Original Medeco pins used the angle cut keys which lifted and rotated the pins so the sidebar could drop in.

M3 uses all that and a slider mechanism which acts as a block for the sidebar, and extends the patent for key control a few more years.

As for the 51S stamp, that's just a UL Labs stamp given to Medeco for certain cylinders after they passed the UL 437 high security lock tests. It isn't an actual Medeco part number, the cylinder you probably have is a 10-200 or something like that. Many many many people, when they are first learning about Medeco think that 51S is the model number of that lock.

Also, remember it is BiAxial, not Biaxle. =) The 2 axis were to be viewed from the pin looking down at the key, where they figured out a way to have more than 1 cut for that pin chamber, you could either have a Fore or Aft cut AND 3 different rotation angles -20, 0, +20, AND 6 key cut depths, so this added many more key combinations which was great for large master keyed systems.

The Medeco logo, is actually the bottom of a key pin, it shows the chisel tip.

Happy picking, I think taking out the sidebar is a good first step, but it might be better to leave it in and remove all the pin stacks and start with 1 pin stack, then 2 then 3, until fully pinned.

Happy picking,
Squelchtone

[Jedilocksmith]

Thanks for the reply. Very informative, and good idea about leaving the sidebar in and removing pin stacks; Its time to try something different...my hands are starting to hurt holding this lock for days now. Im having a really hard time getting feedback out of this lock. It doesnt feel like any lock ive messed with before...not only the chisel shaped pins but even the way the plug feels so solid...there is just no movement in it at all. I have a feeling I'll be working on this one for quite some time. Is it just me, or are these locks notorious for not giving back much feedback?

[Evan]

There are several flavors of Medeco

Original 1968-1985

BiAxial 1985-2003

M3 2005-current

Some folks think that only Biaxial has the pins that you lift AND twist, when in fact even the Original Medeco pins used the angle cut keys which lifted and rotated the pins so the sidebar could drop in.

M3 uses all that and a slider mechanism which acts as a block for the sidebar, and extends the patent for key control a few more years.

Also, remember it is BiAxial, not Biaxle. =) The 2 axis were to be viewed from the pin looking down at the key, where they figured out a way to have more than 1 cut for that pin chamber, you could either have a Fore or Aft cut AND 3 different rotation angles -20, 0, +20, AND 6 key cut depths, so this added many more key combinations which was great for large master keyed systems.

To add to what Squelchtone already so elegantly explained:

Original flavor refinements --

Original in 1967 was 6 depths (.030" 1-6) and later optionally 11 "half-step" depths of (.015" 0-X)... This was done to allow expanded master keying capacity...

Bi-axial added the concept of the fore/aft bitting positions --

This allowed for positional modulation of the fore/aft bittings on the keys of the system to allow for larger and more complex master keying systems than were possible on Original cylinders... The top master key would have both the fore and aft cuts in each bitting position and operate all cylinders...

M3 added the concept of the slider --

This allows Medeco to create "sub-keyways" as the sliders can be different sizes and allows for even greater regional control...

Let's not forget about Duracam and Medeco cam locks which are slightly different than the standard Medeco cylinders...

Duracam uses keys which have the angled bitting cuts made on the wide side edge of the key blade rather than the top narrow edge...

Medeco cam locks use different pins which have round holes on the sides and a different side bar, only one bottom pin is used - no master pins, the pins where master keying is involved have two round holes in the correct positions... No top pins are used...

Just adding a few more pearls of wisdom on the subject...

~~ Evan

[zeepia]

@Jedilocksmith:

Use vise with rubber shield, prevents your fingers getting sore:



Good luck!

[Jedilocksmith]

Thanks for the added info Evan, good stuff. These locks are pretty cool...and very humbling. Cant wait to pop one of these open one day.

Yea, I have one of those vices, I just never really use it. Im definitely going to have to pull it out for this one. I found that it holds the lock/locks alot better if you loose the rubber on it. At least on mine anyways.

[webpirate2]

I always look at medeco locks and I can't even see how the are pickable....but I am a rookie

[GWiens2001]

I am just learning them, too. But progressive pinning definitely helps.

[Teddy Picker]

I always look at medeco locks and I can't even see how the are pickable....but I am a rookie

I'm with you on that one. I look at the design and I'm like, "how do you turn the... what the hell?".

[debbiec1967]

I bought a 1969 double wide and want to change the deadbolts, they are the medeco 51s printed on the lock you can lock from inside or out. I cant figure out where you remove any screws to replace the lock! HELP!

[Squelchtone]

I bought a 1969 double wide and want to change the deadbolts, they are the medeco 51s printed on the lock you can lock from inside or out. I cant figure out where you remove any screws to replace the lock! HELP!

Hi,

It sounds like you have a LORI mortise cylinder deadbolt with Medeco mortise cylinders installed, but without a photo I cannot be sure.

Check out this diagram and see if this helps: http://www.mrlock.com/mfg/ilc/lori.html

When you open the door, and look at the door jamb where there deadbolt comes out of the door, look for a plate to remove or if there is no trim plate, look for 2 holes on either side of the deadbolt. You will need a 5/64" inch hex/allen wrench that goes into the holes and unscrews a set screw on each side, then you insert the Medeco keys in HALF way and turn counter clock wise to unscrew the cylinders. After that it's pretty easy to take the rest of the deadbolt out of the door.

Best bet would be to take the two cylinders, go to a local Medeco authorized locksmith and repin them to new keys, that lock is far better than anything you will replace it with from the local hardware store.

to post photos upload them to http://tinypic.com and then Copy/Paste the link here.

Squelchtone