old fraim six lever padlock

[femurat]

I just got an old padlock, I'm trying to feel the levers with an L bent wire. I feel 3 levers on the left and just 2 on the right. hope the last lever on the right is not stuck.
any idea on how to tension this lock? should I pull the shackle?
I can see the 3 left levers moving from a little gap between the shackle and the lock body. I think I can see something on the other side too but it's not clear as it is on the side.

I'm planning to make a key that lift just one lever at a time, and use it to measure how much it turns, so to estimate the key cut.

pictures to came...

cheers

[Pickmequick]

Looking at one of those, it appears to be a combination of 2 times 3 lever locks combined into 1.

If it is, you will require a T shaped tension wrench whilst you lift the levers.

I could be well wrong as i have never seen one but i doubt just lifting levers alone will open it.

[MrWizard]

If it is the type of 6 lever with the center post they all have 3 levers on both sides of the shackle catches. There is lever a notch/catch on inside and outside of the shackle.The easiest way to get it open is to use some kind of spring steel shim down between the inside part of the shackle while lifting the levers to get the shim in them. Sometimes it is easiest to use a single sided barrel key while looking down the gap with flashlight of the inside area of the shackle to see levers move to get the shim under all 3 levels then use that same single sided barrel key on the other side levers while applying shackle pressure it will pop open if not use a bent wire to lift the levers. Once open you will see clearly how this lock works and be able to hand file a key to fit. Same cuts on both sides of key.

[femurat]

I found some nice pictures of a similar padlock, hope to make some of mine soon.

Pickmequick, I know that just lifting the levers is not enough to pick it. I do it to feel them, where they are, how hard it is to lift one. Then I proceed to pick it. It's a good habit

MrWizard, I think you're right about the shim. I tried with a piece of a soda can and was able to insert it from the outside, and probably went inside enough. I tried on the inside too but it's too thick to enter the small gap. I was able to insert a very thin shim, the one you find in the anti shoplifting tags, but it went free inside the lock and was not able to put it under the shackle catch.
If the key is symmetrical as you say, and the picture I found seems to confirm this, I may be able to make half key, then I could duplicate it and insert both sides...

Unfortunately I can't feel the third lever on the right. I've tried to spray some penetrating oil inside to free it if it's stuck as it seems. I know this is a risk but I want to pick the lock, not to put it in a museum. Hope the spring is not broken. I bought this padlock to make a key for it, as our friend Lauren does. I'll keep you updated, thanks for the input.

Cheers

[MrWizard]

A soda can will never get it it has to be a very rigid piece of spring steel like metal from inside a windshield wiper blade or similar or wider. They have very heavy springs. You can see that shackle on that fraim it has levers that catch on both sides. That lock is not one that has a post in the middle so a barrel key clearly won't work but you can insert a stiff piece or spring steel straight into one side of that keyway and rotate it against the levers. It will be hard to do that type keyway unless you make something you can easily lift all three at the same time to try to get one side shimmed. Looking in the gap while lifting them try to see all three if they clear the gap at any point get that shim in there.

Good luck with it.

[femurat]

A bit of luck doesn't hurt

I made a sort of skeleton key and lifted the left levers one by one, while looking through the small gap on the side. I managed to lift them and to insert the bristle to keep them in place.
The springs are very weak, so was very easy to keep them out of the shackle catch.
On the right side there's no room for a shim, so I pulled the shackle while lifting the first 2 levers. The third lever was such, and fortunately out of the catch.
After a few tries the lock popped open.
I was very surprised!
I can clearly see how it works now that the shackle is open. I was also able to free the stuck lever.

I'm planning to make a key for this old padlock when I have some time.

I think that an uncut key would open every one of these locks.

Cheers

[MrWizard]

Good Job! See the shim method works great if you can get one sided shimmed usually you can get the other side to pop open as well. Bet you about fell over with excitement when it opened .

And like I said you will see clearly how to make a working key now you can see the levers.
Most of those old 6 lever locks have strong springs I guess this one was not.

Good for you, glad to have help you with this project.

Richard

[MrWizard]

I should have added to the thought : "I think that an uncut key would open every one of these locks."

You will find that a blank key won't open all of those locks, it will not turn much in the keyway the levers will lift so high they will hit the outside of the lock case preventing the key from turning. Has to have the cuts already on the key for it to turn much. You will find this out when you go to make the keys trust me.

Richard

[femurat]

Hey Richard,

I was very excited when this antique padlock popped open. I guess it has been closed for ages!
I'll find out by myself if the blank trick works

Thanks again for your suggestions

[MrWizard]

The blank will work to try to use the shim method as I said to use on the barrel key type six and 8 lever.

[femurat]

Finally I had time to try to make a key for this nice old padlock.
I started by looking for something that would fit the keyway, and found this small L shaped metal bracket.
I used just two flat files since don't have a mill or a drill press.
First of all I had to make the blank, by thinning out the sides and cutting a groove in the center of my bracket. Easy







Then I smoked the blank with a bic lighter to see where the warding was. I found the grooves position (circled in red) and filed a few strokes at a time, then cleaned the blank, smoked again, inserted, turned to get the marks and filed again. After some time the blank was finished so the warding stopped marking and it turned a lot.
This is when I realized Richard was right, a blank can't open the lock since the tallest levers prevent it to turn enough to lift the short ones.





The levers left very distinct marks on the smoked blank, you can see three of them in the following picture.



To find out where to file I insert the blank and turn it, while looking at the levers from the shackle hole.
I started filing the two bottom positions, since these two levers were the first to move and arrived till the end of the lock.
Then I filed the others too, testing the blank every few strokes. The goal was to make the lever move all together.
When I though the key was ready I tried to close the shackle and tested it. It was a bit rough but opened the padlock.







Then I smoked the key and fine tuned its cuts, till it turned completely and opened the padlock both clockwise and counterclockwise. The key works now very smoothly, and is reversible.
I'm planning to cut the bracket and give this key a nicer bow shape. Then I may buff it with a polishing compound... I'll keep you updated.



I had a lot of fun with this project. Creating a key from a piece of metal is something really rewarding. Thanks Lauren for inspiring me with your beautiful work. I brought back to life this antique padlock, I'm very happy!

Cheers

[GWiens2001]

Nice work, femurat! It is so rewarding when you make a key to a lock which has none. Impressioning is an art in and of itself.

Gordon

[MrWizard]

Good job! I knew my words would echo in your head when you started to make the key "a blank work open it cause the levers would hit the side of the case preventing the key from turning."

This would have been a lot harder if you didn't have that lock shimmed open to see the levers but this can be done without opening the lock just as you did watch the marks and remember if it isn't marking any more stop filing on that cut. It may start marking again later then it is ok.

You could trace the cuts from that bracket onto a nice piece of metal brass or steel and make a key from scratch that would be a show piece then trace that finished key onto another to make a duplicate. I always make 2 keys since that is how locks come.

[femurat]

Well I found a longer bracket and managed to file another key from it. Works like a charm.
What should I do now? clean and polish the key or soak in lemon and let it rust a bit, to somewhat match the lock look?

Cheers