Lockwood Pentagon

[minifhncc]

Hi all,

Does anyone have experience with the Lockwood Pentagon mortice locks?

It seems quite similar to just a normal mortice cylinder, and the main advantage seems to be that one cam can be used to make the lock retracting or unlock/lock handle (instead of swapping the cylinder's cam to X or Z)...

And the price seems to be quite similar to the usual mortice locks... so is there any "catch" to this product?

Thanks

[lunchb0x]

The catch is they are crap. Lockwood worked with some builders to make an easier product for them to install. To use them you need to use Lockwoods new U cams, the Pentagon cam WILL jam making it hard to set the function, it is conveniently also a #2 phillips bit used to set the function, not good when used with a tech bit in a drill.

One of the big issues I have had with them other than already mentioned is having the hold back function, a lot of schools like the hold back function for entry doors without a lever on the outside, for the new mortice lock you now need to have an external lever and internal cylinder.

If you are after a cheap good quality mortice lock go the Alcom. Stainless steel body, it's thinner which is really good for wooden doors, Lockwood cams work on it and it has a 2 hour fire rating, plus they are cheaper.

When the Pentagons first came out they also stopped making the older mortice locks, they very soon after started making them again as they realised there was a problem with the Pentagons, plus they don't meet the requirements for Government or defence.

[minifhncc]

Hmm okay cheers, who sells Alcom? I don't think LSC stocks them...

So, in other words, the normal Lockwood Primary Mortice Lock would be a much better choice? (if one had to choose).

Thanks

[lunchb0x]

Yes, the 3572SC and 3582SC are a better option over the 3P locks.

Alcom is Australian Lock Company.

http://www.australianlock.com.au/

[minifhncc]

Alcom is Australian Lock Company.

Do they take direct orders?

Thanks

[minifhncc]

Oh, one last question... What do you think of Lockwood's sliding door mortice locks?

If I'm correct, they take the Y cam on the ovals?

Thanks again

[lunchb0x]

Alcom is Australian Lock Company.

Do they take direct orders?

Thanks

I don't think so.

Oh, one last question... What do you think of Lockwood's sliding door mortice locks?

If I'm correct, they take the Y cam on the ovals?

Thanks again

Which ones? there are the 3542SC which I like, especially with the latching strike.

The ones that use the Y cam are the 3571SC which aren't for sliding doors. Lockwood did have one years ago, when locked the bolt would extend and spread out, these older mortice locks are really good, the main issue that I have had with them is the grease in them hardening and the lock stops working, pull them apart, clean and re lubricated and they are good for another 20 years I think these were a 571. ( Try get that out of a new mortice lock)

[minifhncc]

Alcom is Australian Lock Company.

Do they take direct orders?

Thanks

I don't think so.

Then when could I order it from?

And cheers for the other info. Much appreciated!

[minifhncc]

And I was referring to this one: http://www.lsc.com.au/Products/Locks/do ... 573SC.html

I THINK this is more appropriate since I'm going to probably install it on a timber door.

Are they any good, what cam do they use?

Thanks again!

[minifhncc]

And I'm most likely going to need to deadlock it (i.e. oval cylinders on both sides). I THINK the 3573 allows for that...

[minifhncc]

By the way, the 3542SC looks quite attractive. What cam does it take?

PS: Sorry mods for multiple posts... no edit function here...

[lunchb0x]

It might be with calling Australian Lock Co to see if they will sell direct to you,if they wont they should be able to tell you who a dealer is in the area, a Locksmith who sells Bi- Lock will be able to get them.

Regarding the 3573SC, yes you can have a 570 cylinder on both sides as long as it's not a fire exit door. These too are a Y cam. You can get the 3542 in a timber fix, they have a longer face plate, personally I prefer these over the 3573, the 3573 can give you issues if the strike doesn't line up 100%, if the door drops or moves in and out. What is the set up that you are after?


3542 uses the rabbit ear cam - http://www.lsc.com.au/image/cache/produ ... abb675.jpg

The one on the right, the other one is the new U cam for the Pentagons.

[minifhncc]

3542 uses the rabbit ear cam - http://www.lsc.com.au/image/cache/produ ... abb675.jpg
.

Thanks for that. I take it that the 3542SC can be deadlocked on both sides as well? (since it says "can be adapted to suit any function with the addition of appropriate cylinders and turns"...)

How much would I be looking at, in terms of price, for the Alcom mortice locks?

I'm not sure what set up I'm after yet. I'm planning on re partitioning. I'll see what fits the best I guess. But the door MIGHT have to be quite thin... which then I may need to use something like a Lockwood 355...

Last question, what mortice jig do you usually use or have found to be good? I'll be installing these on quite a few doors, so I guess it'd pay to have a jig instead of doing it free hand

Thanks heaps

[minifhncc]

Okay, I think I've finally found the configurations I want.

I think it basically comes down to 3 configurations:

1) For sliding doors, cylinders on both sides and key retracts bolt (for 3542SC)

2) For normal doors, always locked on outside, key retracts latch, cylinder on outside and no turnsnib on inside (for 3572SC)

3) For normal doors, always locked on outside, key retracts latch, cylinder on outside and has a turnsnib on inside it unlock (for 3572SC).

Obviously for 2 and 3 the inside handle retracts the latch...

I think for 2 and 3 the outside cylinder would have an X cam. I'm not sure if it should have a turn adapter on the outside though...

According to: http://mpc.assaabloy.com/lockwoodfile/F ... =2571&dl=1 , there would be no adapter for the outside, but the inside adapter (for 3) would be this one: http://www.lsc.com.au/Products/Locks/do ... 25250.html ... Is that correct?

Also if I'm not mistaken, I could use a W cam to make the key unlock or lock the outside handle? Not too sure though...

Also, it appears I won't need any turn adapters for 1. Is the correct?

Regarding furniture, I think the outside for 2 and 3 would be this one: http://www.lsc.com.au/Products/Hardware ... 170SC.html

The inside for 2 would be http://www.lsc.com.au/Products/Hardware ... 570SC.html and the inside for 3 would be http://www.lsc.com.au/Products/Hardware ... 470SC.html

And I would be these on both sides for 1 : http://www.lsc.com.au/Products/Hardware ... 336SC.html

Thanks again

[minifhncc]

I think I answered by own question about the W cam... One needs this in conjunction with a W cam: http://www.lsc.com.au/Products/Locks/do ... 25250.html

But that leads to the question... what is the difference between a Z cam and W cam?