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Have you seen this lock used?

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby Josh66 » 11 Dec 2012 21:51

I read that again - I didn't notice right away that you were comparing the dots to a password.

Yeah - a password will be more secure than 9 dots. The dot pattern is definitely better than the slider though, maybe better than a 4 digit PIN.

That lock the Windows phones have, where from what I've read is similar to the dot pattern, except it's a photo instead of dots is probably pretty good - since some random person picking up your phone wouldn't even know where the 'dots' were...
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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby ARF-GEF » 12 Dec 2012 16:08

It's sure is a interesting car-lock. Nice find Gordon. Cross platform too. Do yo think they make a euro-profile cylinder version of it too? :D

I first thought pattern lock to be very secure too. But when I thought about it I realised that the dots basically offer the maximal security as a 9 digits combination of numbers from 1->9. And most people don't even use all the dots. Just 4 or 5. The time out makes it more secure though.
But you can easily guess or at least greatly narrow down the search if you look at the finger marks on the touch screen..:)
That's why I don't use it and maybe you should probably consider the good old password too. So spread the world that they are not secure.
The face recognition is the most fascinating if you ask me. A pity that it doesn't work in the dark. Maybe you can bypass it with photo. IDK. But man,it's fun!
Still I think they are great because they are so comfy, so probably make a lot of people who wouldn't use any screensaver-pin use at least some security measure. And those who are uber-security-concious will use a decent password anyway.
As always feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

TeddyPicker, you sure it's not an urban legend? It sounds so brutal. I mean people cutting other people's hand off is not the same category as stealing a key or playing with the lock. It's a lot harder to cut a hand off... You have to have quite a stomach for that. And you can't really do it on streets, can you? That would probably solicit a call to the police in even the worse neighbourhoods. Or am I just too naive? It should probably raise the risk significantly. If you remember the story you heard: was it like a very expensive car?
True or not it sure sound horrific.

Then there's always the method of identifying the capillaries in the finger. I've heard they already use it at some ATMs in Japan. To complement credit card or to substitute them? I don't know. I've just read about it somewhere some time ago. Anyone knows sth. about that? It sound very secure.
(You can of course also drag to owner there if you would could down cut his hand, but I think it's a lot bigger hassle than today's most prolific methods.)
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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby Josh66 » 12 Dec 2012 18:33

ARF-GEF wrote:Then there's always the method of identifying the capillaries in the finger. I've heard they already use it at some ATMs in Japan. To complement credit card or to substitute them? I don't know. I've just read about it somewhere some time ago. Anyone knows sth. about that? It sound very secure.
(You can of course also drag to owner there if you would could down cut his hand, but I think it's a lot bigger hassle than today's most prolific methods.)

One place I used to work had a hand scanner instead of the typical badge reader.

I think this is it:
http://www.centraltimeclock.com/timeand ... dpunch.php

From the brochure:
The HandPunch terminals work by creating a three-dimensional image
of your right hand. During an initial enrollment session each user is given
a unique pin number. A template for each employee is then created by recording the
length, width, thickness and surface area of their hand. This template is converted to a
9-byte code where it is stored in both the HandReader memory and on your local computer.
To clock in or out, simply enter your pin number and place your hand once.
Your identity is verified in less than a second.
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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby Josh66 » 12 Dec 2012 18:34

Not quite the same thing, but it was pretty cool at the time.
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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby ARF-GEF » 13 Dec 2012 3:40

Wow, it's looks very cool!

Do you think it only looks at the physical shape of the hand or does it test for life signs also? Well come to think about it, it doesn't need to that much. I mean making a fake hand is unusually complicated just for buddy-punching an hour more.:D But hey, never underestimate a sufficiently motivated workforce.
Did you hear about anyone cheating it? Was it accurate? Did it accept your hand all the time?
I'm sorry about all the questions, it' just very interesting and I've never seen anything like it.


( @Teddy Picker: I'm sorry I've re-read your post and I've just realised that you said it might be just a myth too. So please ignore the not fitting parts.:) )
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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby GWiens2001 » 13 Dec 2012 5:17

There are many forms of biometric identification. The hand thing would not surprise me. I would agree in hoping for life signs in identification. As for buddy punching, if it did not check for life signs, anybody who has taken a class in casting will know how to make a mold, if you have the original item to be copied. (Hopefully, a willing person)

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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby Josh66 » 13 Dec 2012 9:17

In 3 years, I have never seen it fail or accept another hand in place of mine. It worked with dirty or gloved (latex) hands too (we used to try to make it fail all the time, lol).

At first, I was thinking it was looking at the blood vessel network in your hand, but I guess there's no reason for it to be that complicated. It's more of a time clock than actual security. We still scanned our badges to get in the gate.
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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby ice_man » 22 Dec 2012 8:51

i hope he has a pass code on it or someone might steal it :D
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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby nothumbs » 24 Dec 2012 20:13

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4396831.stm That would be this story. Don't recall ever hearing the MB redesigned the lock system as a result of this single and singular event.
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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby ARF-GEF » 25 Dec 2012 9:49

OMG!
I've never thought that might happen!
Wow. Guess that put our bad neighbourhoods into perspective...
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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby easy-e » 27 Dec 2012 11:05

I'm honestly surprised the 4 guys didn't kill him too. Maybe criminals in other parts of the world are more respectful?

I had a laptop with a fingerprint reader and I purposely programmed all 10 digits into it so I didn't have to worry about cuts, scrapes, etc. I could have also just typed my password in but that's no fun!

RFID tags can be cloned by just getting close to someone. I see a lot of women just put their purse up to the reader and I've seen guys just butt check it because the card is in their wallet. At least passwords, mechanical keys, and biometrics take some extra effort to get the information.
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Re: Have you seen this lock used?

Postby Teddy Picker » 27 Dec 2012 12:20

nothumbs wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4396831.stm That would be this story. Don't recall ever hearing the MB redesigned the lock system as a result of this single and singular event.


Yup, that sounds like the story. Sorry for the details I got wrong; I didn't have the original article because I heard the story as part of a presentation at a security conference.
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