Good Lock for Beginner

[Hack.The.Pow.]

Hello all.

I am looking into learning more about lock-picking and the art behind it.

I purchased this kit for cheap off of lockpickshop.com http://www.lockpickshop.com/PXS-05L.html

I heard that you should start small your kit and that is exactly what I'm doing.

I however need a lock to practice on. I have a home depot and a small hardware store by me or I could order from offline. If I go to a physical store though I would like to know exactly what I was looking for so it doesn't seem too sketchy to the guy working.

So ideally I would like a cheap lock that I can remove most of the pins at first to get started, and then put them back in to make it more difficult. I have been lurking here for a bit trying to find this info but what I have found was either old or didn't have a specific model number. I am for the most part a complete noob so take it easy on me.

Thanks in advance

[lockjock50]

i would recommend a regular kwickset to try first. or maybe a off brand like you would find at the walmart. they are generally common and inexpensive. most are pinned with the shorter pins. home depot sells schlage locks and they tend to be a little more difficult for your first lock. just get one and go with it.
then when you are ready for a primus, everest, or medeco come back to see us. hahaha

[GWiens2001]

Another possibility is to go to a locksmith shop. You can be sure that they will have plenty (probably boxes) of old locks they can sell cheap. Buy 2 or three different types of locks to keep you occupied. Don't start out by telling them that the locks are for picking practice. Just say they are for a playhouse for your (or sister's, neighbor's, brother's cousin's uncle's best friend's former roommate.

Alternatley, if you in a larger town, Habitat for Humanity frequently has a surplus store, and you can get locks there for anywhere from 50 cents to 5 dollars. Think I paid a buck for what they said was a non-functioning privacy deadbolt. They had the description off just a bit. It was an Abloy Disclock deadbolt. It was a great find for me.

But they also have quite a few deadbolts in brand new condition, that pick easily. So I used 5 of them to make a practice board for a local hackerspace. Need to run it down to them soon.

The point being, there are cheap locks around, from yard sales to flea markets to eBay.

Best of luck,

Gordon

[lockr]

Alternatley, if you in a larger town, Habitat for Humanity frequently has a surplus store, and you can get locks there for anywhere from 50 cents to 5 dollars. Think I paid a buck for what they said was a non-functioning privacy deadbolt. They had the description off just a bit. It was an Abloy Disclock deadbolt. It was a great find for me.

You're lucky! After your original post describing your cool find, I looked up the store closest to me and paid them a visit two days ago. Sadly although they did have a good selection of nice deadbolts and various other locks, they were priced nearly at retail. I did manage to find a few camlocks for a couple of bucks each but I went away disappointed nonetheless.

However, later that day at a thrift store I managed to pick up three apparently new E-z-set entry sets for $1 ea. Although cheap, I was impressed to find they were drilled and keyed for lost-ball construction keying, which so far are the only locks in my collection with that feature.

Bottom line, you gotta try, you never know what you'll find.

[flyboy1056]

I second the locksmiths shop. Went in to the local shop today and ended up with a box of at least 20 locks for about 25$

[Hack.The.Pow.]

Thanks for the advice guys. So I went to a local hardware shop and got a EZ SET deadbolt for about 10 bucks. Little overpriced from what you guys are describing but I suppose it could be worse.

Anyway after tinkering with the thing for a while and trying around various pin combinations I managed to destroy all 5 springs. I'm not sure if EZ set locks are different but the springs seemed to elevate out of the outer housing. This made putting the driver pin back in quite difficult. Where can I get more springs for my lock?

I also saw a metal plate on the back of the outer housing that might have been removable but I didn't want to force it off. Is there a way to remove that?

[lockr]

Thanks for the advice guys. So I went to a local hardware shop and got a EZ SET deadbolt for about 10 bucks. Little overpriced from what you guys are describing but I suppose it could be worse.

Anyway after tinkering with the thing for a while and trying around various pin combinations I managed to destroy all 5 springs. I'm not sure if EZ set locks are different but the springs seemed to elevate out of the outer housing. This made putting the driver pin back in quite difficult. Where can I get more springs for my lock?

I also saw a metal plate on the back of the outer housing that might have been removable but I didn't want to force it off. Is there a way to remove that?

Not sure what those locks retail for but I guess it depends on how much you want to invest in a play lock. However, keep an eye out for deals - thrift stores, swap meets, you'll likely be able to pick up something far superior for less money. Like I mentioned in my previous post I picked up several of them for $1 ea and i've even had helpful old ladies that run thrift stores say "oh there's no key for that lock? Well i'll give it to you for free..." sometimes you get lucky =)

Since I now have a few e-z-set locks in my posession and i've gutted and re-assembled them all now, I'd be glad to share my experiences with them. However the locks I have aren't deadbolts, they're entry sets; so the internals will be different to what you have. I'm not sure which metal plate you're referring to, can you post a picture?

Just out of curiosity, how did you manage destroy the springs? Are you using a plug follower?

I believe the springs are standard. I tried some springs from my Lab Kwikset kit in the cylinder and they fit fine. You should be able to purchase replacement springs from a number of sources online, such as http://www.mrlock.com/11715.html (disclaimer- i've never bought from these guys before) or if you make friends with a local locksmith they can often be persuaded to sell you a few.

[GWiens2001]

Many times, hardware stores have rekeying kits. If you ask to purchase a few springs, frequently the response is "We don't have pricing for pins or springs, but here, you can have a few". Or they might ask for a buck or two. It is worth a try!

Good luck,

Gordon

[Hack.The.Pow.]

Not sure what those locks retail for but I guess it depends on how much you want to invest in a play lock. However, keep an eye out for deals - thrift stores, swap meets, you'll likely be able to pick up something far superior for less money. Like I mentioned in my previous post I picked up several of them for $1 ea and i've even had helpful old ladies that run thrift stores say "oh there's no key for that lock? Well i'll give it to you for free..." sometimes you get lucky =)

Since I now have a few e-z-set locks in my posession and i've gutted and re-assembled them all now, I'd be glad to share my experiences with them. However the locks I have aren't deadbolts, they're entry sets; so the internals will be different to what you have. I'm not sure which metal plate you're referring to, can you post a picture?

Just out of curiosity, how did you manage destroy the springs? Are you using a plug follower?

I believe the springs are standard. I tried some springs from my Lab Kwikset kit in the cylinder and they fit fine. You should be able to purchase replacement springs from a number of sources online, such as http://www.mrlock.com/11715.html (disclaimer- i've never bought from these guys before) or if you make friends with a local locksmith they can often be persuaded to sell you a few.

Yeah I suppose I need to keep my eyes out for some locks and springs. I would order from that site but I don't know if I can justify paying 3x the price of the springs just for shipping. I'll start calling department stores to see if they have springs or know of any locksmith shops in the area.

As I am not home with the lock I can't take a picture but it is a gold(color at least) plate on the outside of the lock housing that keeps the springs and pins in. If you look at this video you can see what I'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhnT3dvDhIQ

The part at around 2:30 where he slides, quite easily, a cover off the back is the part I'm referring to. This is the same location that I'm talking about but there is a different part on my lock. On mine the plate is in a groove, it can slide very minorly, and has two indents in it, about equidistant from the middle of it. If that doesn't help you I'll try and get a picture up ASAP.



As far as destroying the springs, one was done after I dropped it and only found it a day later mangled, but the others were all from trying to alter the pin combos. When the lock turns, the spring comes out of the hole in the chamber and gets spun around causing it to uncoil. I am using a plug follower. I think the issue is either two of these things.

The first is that the springs got messed up somehow before and were stretched a bit too long. As you can see in this video around the 1:45 mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvUDxFEki1I When he puts the screw back into the lock housing they do not stick out over the top of the hole. In my lock they stuck out a decent amount over the hole. This makes putting the driver pins back in harder, but it still can be done. Maybe when I am putting the lock back together they get caught and start uncoiling.

The other is that when screwing the cap back on the lock after putting the retaining pin back on I have been leaving the tail piece on. This is making holding the retaining pin down very hard. So occasionally my pick will slip and the retaining pin will reengage, cause the cylinder to spin in the housing(without a key). I'm assuming this is bad and causes the spring to get tangled up in the cylinder.

I realize now, for testing purposes, that I should probably take the tail piece off to make it easier to hold down the retaining pin. While not important now since I am just picking it, how should this be done when you want a functional lock?

Sorry if this was too much. Just trying to learn

[GWiens2001]

It sounds like either all of the pins are not there (are there both driver and key pins in each pin channel?) or the combination of key pin and driver pin is too short, allowing the spring to enter the plug, which it should never do. Also be sure that you do not put a spring into a channel with no pins. Hopefully this helps.

Gordon

[lockr]

Yeah I suppose I need to keep my eyes out for some locks and springs. I would order from that site but I don't know if I can justify paying 3x the price of the springs just for shipping. I'll start calling department stores to see if they have springs or know of any locksmith shops in the area.

Gordon's suggestion here is a good one. Regardless of where you get them from, you'll want to have spares.. they take a lot of (ab)use and are fragile, so you'll probably want to have extras on hand especially if you're learning about the internal works of locks. It's understandable that a few will get mangled during the learning process.

The part at around 2:30 where he slides, quite easily, a cover off the back is the part I'm referring to. This is the same location that I'm talking about but there is a different part on my lock. On mine the plate is in a groove, it can slide very minorly, and has two indents in it, about equidistant from the middle of it. If that doesn't help you I'll try and get a picture up ASAP.

I'm not sure what the technical term for that part is, but i've always called it the spring cover or cap. Usually they're crimped on pretty tight, otherwise the lock would be vulnerable to attack. In the video it looks like he'd removed it prior to recording the video, so that the cap slides loosely out of the groove.

As far as destroying the springs, one was done after I dropped it and only found it a day later mangled, but the others were all from trying to alter the pin combos. When the lock turns, the spring comes out of the hole in the chamber and gets spun around causing it to uncoil. I am using a plug follower. I think the issue is either two of these things.

Gordon said it best, but to paraphrase - be sure that each populated chamber has a proper pin stack. Also when re-assembling a cylinder with fewer that a full compliment of pins, be careful when inserting and removing the plug; it's easy to accidentally drop a pin into the wrong chamber that way.

I realize now, for testing purposes, that I should probably take the tail piece off to make it easier to hold down the retaining pin. While not important now since I am just picking it, how should this be done when you want a functional lock?

It depends on how the tailpiece is attached. On the e-z-set cylinders that I have the tailpiece is held in place with a cap with a dimple that fits into a small hole at the end of the plug. Is yours the same way? I was able to remove the cap by simply prising it off with a small screwdriver; I can easily re-attach it if I ever wanted to use the lock (although of course I wouldn't)...

[GWiens2001]

As Lockr said, be careful if all pin channels are not populated. I usually turn the plug a little bit before removing it, so that the driver pins do not line up with the plug, preventing the drivers from falling into empty channels.

Gordon