Difficulty Rekeying Locks

[feedthedog1]

Hello all,

I'm something of a novice when it comes to locks, and I seem to be stuck. I want to rekey three locks so that they all operate off of the same keys.

Lock #1: Regular residential Kwikset single cylinder deadbolt. I'm not attached to this, and totally open to replacing it.

Lock #2: Euro Profile lock for security storm door. I'm told that this is the same keyway that you would find on a Kwikset.


Lock #3: An unusual rim lock that came with this product http://www.nokey.com/foxstylpollo.html. The website lists this as a Corbin Russwin lock with a RUI keyway. This thing has a really long tailpiece that has to stick all the way through the door to connect to the cog that moves the locking arms. The tailpiece is also secured with screws instead of the usual clip.




At this point, I'm pretty well stuck. After much googling and questioning, I was pointed to this forum. Does anyone have an idea on how to get all of these locks to cooperate?

[Daggers]

Get all of the locks out of the door or whatever they're in and then either pick them or shim them (or just use the key and turn it). In the case of the one with the screws on the back, unscrew it and for the others take the retaining clip off. Then take a plug follower and push out the plug. You don't want the other pins to fly out of the housing.

Dump out the key pins from the plugs. Then put the pins that match the key bitting into the plug. If you don't know how to match it and you don't have a key decoder, put the key in the plug and try different pin sizes until it's the right height (flush with the surface of the plug. Be very precise). If you don't have the right size of pins, a cheap way to do it is to just put the key in and put in a bigger size pin and just file it down. But i would only recommend this if this is just for you and not as a job for others. Push the plug follower out using the plug and then turn it to lock it again. Put on the retaining clips/screws and reinstall them.

I don't know how well you understand this terminology but here's a list of definitions that you might or might not know:

plug: the circular part of the lock that spins with the key when you turn it. It's a cylinder that extends to the back of the lock.
bitting: the height of each teeth on the key.
key decoder: a card that you can put up to a key and see what the exact bitting of the key is. Used so that you can match it up with the right size of pin.
retaining clip: the clip at the back of the plug that keeps the plug from falling out.
plug follower: anything that is the same diameter as the plug that you can push into the lock housing so that as the plug leaves, the plug follower takes it's place so that the top pins don't fly out.
key pins: bottom pins.

Hopefully this helps!

[LockDocWa]

The profile cylinder will most likely be the hardest to rekey.
Use the key for the profile cylinder and rekey all the locks to it.
That way you needn't mess with the profile cylinder at all.

[feedthedog1]

Ok... I think I understand.

In layman's terms: I need to take them apart, and get the guts out. Then I adjust the pins until they all match the same key. Right?

One more problem to add to the mix. Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but what do I do if the keys physically won't fit into the each of the locks? Not sure if this is the right terminology, but they seem to have different keyways.

I had assumed that I needed to replace the cylinders on one or more locks, so they would all have the same keyway. Is this correct?

[zeepia]

Yes you understood it right.

But if your preferred key doesn´t fit physically all the locks, then you can´t make a key that opens all the locks in question.

Good luck!

[Squelchtone]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

There are new Fox Russwin RU1 keyway cylinders on ebay right now,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270954181775

I'm not sure you'll find a euro profile cylinder in RU1, best to call a local locksmith shop for that, and if your Kwikset is a normal Home Depot kwikset single or double deadbolt, you could replace that with a LORI deadbolt and a Russwin RU1 keyway mortise cylinder on one side, and a thumb turn mortise cylinder on the interior. Likewise, if the LORI deadbolt with mortise cylinders isn't your thing, you can get a Marks or Arrow deadbolt that can accept a an RU1 keyway "KIK" (key in knob) cylinder with the proper tailpiece to operate the Marks or Arrow deadbolt.

Poke around this catalog for ideas: ILCO (Independent Lock Company) makes a lot of products that are well priced. http://orchardlock.com/sites/default/files/catalog/Orchard-Lock_ilco.pdf

Check out youtube for videos on repinning a euro profile cylinder or rim or mortise cylinder, likewise check here, there are some tutorials kicking around.

If this is a dangerous area, and you have some money to spend on premium quality locks, you can more than likely unscrew the plate and tailpiece off your FOX lock and screw it right onto the back of a Medeco rim cylinder (or buy a Medeco rim cylinder with Fox tailpiece) then get a Medeco euro profile cylinder, and a Medeco deadbolt all keyed the same, or an Arrow deadbolt and a Medeco knob cylinder insert for it (to save $100 bucks on the hardware). Talking a few hundred dollars here, but all would be keyed the same, all would be hard to pick and drill and you would be in control of how many keys are floating around because the corner hardware shop can't cut medeco, they just dont have the blanks.

let us know how your project turns out,
Squelchtone

[feedthedog1]

Thanks all,

This is turning out to be a fun little lock project. It's strange that I bought this house at auction after it was stripped of copper and abandoned. Since May, I've slowly built it back up, learning as I go. Its funny, because the more I learn, the more I realize that I hardly know anything.

There is a bit of crime in the area, but the criminals are not too savvy. I talked to a cop and a locksmith in the last few weeks and with a combined 35 years of experience, none of them have been called out after a lock was picked (although they mentioned that they had seen 2-3 times when someone had bumped a lock). We typically see brute force attacks with minimal tools. That's why I thought the cross-bar lock might be a decent idea. I also really dig the way it looks hanging on the door.

If I go the Medeco route, I'd be looking at roughly:

$100 Medeco Rim Cylinder
$150 Medeco Deadbolt
$100 Medeco Euro Profile

Plus the side entry:
$150 Medeco Deadbolt
$100 Medeco Euro Profile

That's optimistically $600, which is a little more than I'd like to spend. Nevertheless, it is a solution.

I'll continue digging around. Thanks for all of the help!

[Daggers]

if all the locks have basically the same keyway, you can shave a bit of metal off of the key to make it fit and still work all of the locks. but this would only work if the keyways are all very similar but not exactly the same.

[feedthedog1]

The RU1 and Kwikset keyways look to be very different to me, although I'm not exactly an expert in this.

[cledry]

Just buy a KW1 keyway rim cylinder and take your other two locks to a locksmith and have them match it to your new rim cylinder. A rim cylinder should cost about $17 and rekeying the other two locks should be $10 each or less. So for $37 you are done in about 5 minutes.

[lockr]

Just buy a KW1 keyway rim cylinder and take your other two locks to a locksmith and have them match it to your new rim cylinder. A rim cylinder should cost about $17 and rekeying the other two locks should be $10 each or less. So for $37 you are done in about 5 minutes.

+1, sometimes you have to consider the simplest solution.

The OP did suggest concern with bumping and the house being located in a somewhat higher crime area. Bumping is probably the most sophisticated attack any typical burglar would employ, and even then, it's probably fairly rare; however, it's probably safe to assume that a bump key in KW1 (and SC1, etc) would almost certainly be in the posession of any criminal who knows how to bump locks.

So it might make sense to spend the $$ on a higher-end solution (like Medeco), or if that just's too expensive, get a quote from a locksmith about replacing them all in something with a less common keyway. Personally, i'd be mainly concerned with the physical security of the doors and windows of the house.

[Capt_Tom]

Go to the locksmiths (as previously suggested by others) and get them to replace the keyways with "restricted keyways". These are keyways made by the manufacturer specifically for the locksmith's shop. No one within a few hundred miles of him will have the same keyway. He will be the only one that can supply keys. A lock cannot be bumped without a key that will slide into it. Also have him add security pins to all three locks, to deter novice pickers. If he cannot match the plug of one of them, replace it with one that he can use the Restricted keyway in. A Poor Man's Medico ....Decent security at a reasonable cost.

[cledry]

Actually the rim cylinder shown isn't using a standard tailpiece. Finding a replacement may require a bit more work.

[sandplum]

What an interesting topic this is! So many different answers. It seems like most of them require buying a new cylinder and/or a new lock. What is interesting is which lock each person chooses to replace, and with what. Shall we take bets on how much an American locksmith is going to charge the client to rekey a profile cylinder with non-Kwikset spacing to work with his existing Kwikset key (and get it right)?

My question to the OP is: Why do you want all of these locks to operate with the same key combination? Or even have the same keyway?

[easy-e]

My question to the OP is: Why do you want all of these locks to operate with the same key combination? Or even have the same keyway?

I would say it is for convenience of only having to carry one key. As far as I know everyone else in my apartment complex has knobs and deadbolts keyed alike. Mine are not only keyed differently, but also different brands/keyways. It's just a bit annoying when you are carrying something and trying to fumble with multiple keys.