Picking order for security pins?

[boggif]

I tried a lot of searching and yet found no topic on this one: what strategies you use to determine the best picking order when multiple security pins are at falses set at the same time?

I've been practising with a rebranded lock I think is Assa 700-series. A fun lock with one regular pin and the rest spool pins like I---I and a couple modified spools like this: I-I---I. This is a tricky lock to me that I'm able to barely pick. I made a practise lock of it by removing some pins to make it easier for the moment.

Basically when I pick the 1st pin, all the rest pins fall into a false set. The problem I have is some of the pins falling at the late stage and I have to redo them over and over a gain. I've so far failed to figure out how to find a proper picking order for the rest (exept trial and error or learing to memorize the order that has worked on previous tries). The persistant strategy of redoing all the fallen pins over and over works eventually but I'm sure this is not optimal solution. Any tips?

I have no problem handling the individual security pins so this question is not about the basic handing of a single security pin.

[GWiens2001]

I think you are doing the only thing you can do. You might try varying pressure on the tension wrench while actually setting the security pins, but I experience the same issues you do.

Good luck,

Gordon

[Solomon]

With spools, the pin which gives immediate counter rotation is the one you want. The others will have a tiny amount of give to them before feeling solid and causing the plug to turn back... ASSA locks are a different story though, they generally have countermilled chambers as well. Not much I can tell you about ASSA specifically, I haven't successfully picked many.

[boggif]

Thanks, I'll have to keep working more on my technique based on your tips.

I also happened to find Solomons guide at http://www.uklockpickers.co.uk/lockpicking-guides which talks about the binding order too. This might be worth reading for anyone else wondering on the subject.

[Wizer]

Moi, wellcome tp LP101!
Assas are really not for beginners. I´ve picked a couple 5-pinners, but the 700-series remain unpicked. Progressively pinning it I´ve gotten to 6 pins, but I´ve never picked one with full 7 pins.
Not all locks that look like Assas are that hard. A couple years back I bought this oval cylinder from Biltema. It looks much like Assa 700 and even uses Assa HH7 blank. That one I can pick. Note that its the only lock I have successfully picked with a full hook.
Heres the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6tkoK4CYYg

Its good to see more Finns joining the forum. For a while I thought that there were 2 or 3 lockpickers in Finland. Soon we´ll have enough hobbyists to start a real "Lockpicking group Finland"

Keep at it, happy picking!

[boggif]

What I have is the Biltema Assa-lookalike. No countermilling and not very thight tolerances either. A great lock for practising spools. A beginner could use a similar lock and just re-pin it with less pins to make it easier and add more pins as one gets more skilled.

[boggif]

I've kept on practising spools (and serrations) and I've really got used to them. After learning and thinking a bit more I've found several strategies that are ok, but the best one seems to depend on the binding order and pinning of the lock.

So far I've used all these methods with great success:
1. Strict order (ie. always front to back or back to front)
-you'll drop a lot of pins but eventually you'll get them all.
2. Avoid normal pins at first and get as many as possible of the spools etc lifted before going to a false set.
-you'll avoid continuous relifting the dropping pins (but are probably more in the danger of overlifting)
3. Trying to find the most responsive spool by avoiding the "springy" or mushy ones
-Works great, but this may come with the risk of getting into random lifting if there is not enough difference for you to notice which might take a long time
4. Compromises like lifting a pin from the front to get more room to get the back pin
-might sometimes be worth it if you find it hard to access back pin. This may come with the price of having to relift front pins more when they get dropped

Anyone want to comment more on these?

Avoiding getting into a false set has been almost a must with the Assa-like lock if it has funny double spools in it. They are actually shaped like I==I-i where diameter of "i" is smaller than diameter of "I"s. Those pins seem to be ably to turn a bit sideways and get so stuck there is nothing you can do but turn the plug a bit backwards to be able to lift them. This is a tricky thing to do, especially without a perfectly maching wrench that enables controlled backword movement as well.

[Capt_Tom]

I have had some success in taking a broken pick (that is now just a straight probe), and gently lifting all pins at once. I then apply a little tension, and begin picking. It seems to get a couple of the security pins "anchored" at the same time, making picking a little easier.