New Technique To Open Lever Locks In Seconds???

[MacGyver101]

Actually, I could probably get into those secure levers. A small handheld radar may do the trick and it could be used to image the levers in real-time.

Hrm... interesting idea, but you'd need a tremendous amount of power for that: it's not shown in the photos, but the front of each of the last two are steel plate that's over 1/4". When in use, each of those three locks would have 3/4" or more of steel to penetrate before you got to the levers.

[horsefeathers]

you know how on Dragon's Den the investors sometimes plead with the 'inventors' not to devote any more time and/or money into a doomed project.......................

nice that you are thinking outside the box

but time to get a reality check - unworkable and impractical. With practice and huge amount of time you may get a system to work on maybe one or two locks. I doubt it but there is that chance of course. Is it a solution that can be marketed and sold to trading locksmiths - not a hope! Hand held radar!!!!

By all means pursue this idea for your own satisfaction, but i think you will soon realise all that has been said to you previously in this thread.

I'm out

[Teddy Picker]

Teddy Picker, that post was a little bit of genius, I forgot about this class of material. I'm wondering if we could create a literal "brute force" key. Use an arduino, or some other i/o controller, to change the bitting on a key sequentially. I would really like to see this one!!!!!!!

I'm not sure. I'm assuming you won't want to remove the key from the lock for each trial, as that would make a slow process even slower. So you'd want parts of the key to expand rather than harden. There may be a material that does that, and it would almost certainly be more reliable than the alternatives at the scale that can fit into a lock (moving bits + pneumatics, maybe? The options aren't good). Still, I worry the results would be an overly-specialized tool; you'd be limited to a specific keyway, number of pins, etc.

That said, there's nothing about this concept that is limited to pin/tumbler locks. It probably would be ineffective against a rotating pin mechanism, but it might be interesting to try it against disc detainers. That possibility makes it worth more research for me.

[mmcc]

horsefeathers, are you referring to the D3O or the radar? If you are speaking about radar, a handheld system is feasible. Here is a video of one the military use:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhj8fyWZE_o

The problem we are discussing is if we can shift the frequency higher and perform basic imaging of the levers. It wouldn't need to be great, just enough to indicate that the levers were in the right position. I'm not entirely convinced it is achievable, however, there are numerous options that may prove to be functional and need a little research.

Teddy Picker, I see those issues also and given the expense, I don't think such a tool would prove cost effective. I was thinking of a key with telescopic teeth that could be driven by compressed air making use of programmable valves. But, I'm wondering if this is just overkill.

Anyway, in regards to pin tumblers and disc detainers, I think the future is going to be robot dialers. There is no reason these cannot act as a WIFI point and you could connect your Android, iPad, etc., to them. I'm working on a new class of attack that could strike at Protec/Protec2. If this pans out, then I should be able to automate the pick. That said, I am waiting for the equipment to arrive and I'll have a better idea if the attack is even feasible.

[Teddy Picker]

Teddy Picker, I see those issues also and given the expense, I don't think such a tool would prove cost effective. I was thinking of a key with telescopic teeth that could be driven by compressed air making use of programmable valves. But, I'm wondering if this is just overkill.

Anyway, in regards to pin tumblers and disc detainers, I think the future is going to be robot dialers. There is no reason these cannot act as a WIFI point and you could connect your Android, iPad, etc., to them. I'm working on a new class of attack that could strike at Protec/Protec2. If this pans out, then I should be able to automate the pick. That said, I am waiting for the equipment to arrive and I'll have a better idea if the attack is even feasible.

I think if you can get through the Protec/Protec2, the US military would pay very large amounts of money for that, making it cost effective.

[mmcc]

I'm sure they can already do it. Anyway, from what I hear they don't pay for ideas anymore. They've gone a little communist in this regards.

[horsefeathers]

i was merely replying that i think this whole process of yours for decoding lever locks is too convoluted to be of any use in the real world. That's if the idea works at all.

many many real world locksmiths can pick the majority of mortice locks they encounter (domestic rather than safe locks or rare locks) in under 5 mins using curtain picks or other decoders in existence, or even simple wires

[mmcc]

i was merely replying that i think this whole process of yours for decoding lever locks is too convoluted to be of any use in the real world. That's if the idea works at all.

many many real world locksmiths can pick the majority of mortice locks they encounter (domestic rather than safe locks or rare locks) in under 5 mins using curtain picks or other decoders in existence, or even simple wires

I don't think a USB device and an android tablet could be described as convoluted. Also, we wouldn't be decoding the locks, just looking if the levers had released the bolt inside. You would still need the same tools, but it would help in locks that were not vulnerable to that picking method.

It would be an expensive piece of kit too.

[mmcc]

I just got my hands on a brand new 5 lever Mortice Lock from Eclipse. This is rated to BS3621 which means it is insurance approved. I took it apart and found the same thing with the levers. Levers with different codes are shaped differently and this can be revealed through impressioning.

I haven't checked yet, but I am wondering if the shape of the levers is universal, or if it is manufacturer specific. I will update this when I know.