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Beginner tension question

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Beginner tension question

Postby RivenV » 16 Jan 2013 13:22

Good day!

I've been interested in lock picking for a long time. I just recently acquired a kit (HPC) with a couple tension wrenches and several assorted picks--hooks, half-diamonds, rakes, and the like. Right now, I've been practicing on a simple Master Lock #3, having heard it was one of many "easy" locks to start on. I have managed to open it four times by pure luck, it seems.I have not been able to SPP it open, despite my best efforts to do so. I have tried varying the tension in multiple different ways: using different single fingers and combinations of fingers to hold differeing levels of tension, adjusting the orientation of how I'm holding the lock (upside down, etc.), and switching between a hook and a half-diamond pick. I have heard that a "feather-light" touch is often required for this particular lock. (I understand it varies from individual lock to lock.) I imagine everyone gets better at finding proper levels of torque as time goes on and there's certainly no replacement for practice, but I was hoping for some advice beyond what I've tried so far. I am very interested in SPP, as opposed to raking, but I must be doing something wrong.
Additionally, the four times when I inadvertently raked the lock open with a hook were very strange. My confusion about this stems from the circumstances of the second and fourth successes. My first successful attempt was after hours of idle manipulation--all of a sudden, the wrench turned in my hand and the lock opened. Awesome. So, I locked the padlock again and set about replicating my results. To my surprise, the lock sprang open again almost immediately. Imagine my delight, thinking I had mastered this easy padlock and ready to move on to more challenging fare... But I couldn't do it again. Several days later, the exact same thing happened while I was alternating between SPP and idle tinkering. My question here is, are recently picked locks more easily compromised immediately after the fact? I can't think of any reason they would be once locked again, but I've been wrong before.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any help or advice on these topics. Thank you for your time and kind consideration. :)
Shiny!
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Re: Beginner tension question

Postby zeepia » 16 Jan 2013 13:37

Lock is easier pickable after opened once only if you don´t lock it again properly. If you just put the shackle back slightly, there might be some pins which don´t reset properly. I would think this is the case only with inferior locks.

Take your time to read through those wonderful manuals found here and get a feeling what happens inside the lock. It also helps if you get some lock which you can take some pins out, leaving only two at the beginning. Then you know where you must consentrate.
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Re: Beginner tension question

Postby boggif » 16 Jan 2013 14:23

Sometimes "easy" locks are difficult to feel. I have a worn out old Master 3 that is very easy to pick but difficult to feel properly.

What is the right tension generally is a more broad and difficult question:
-The mininum tension you can use is what opens the lock (padlocks are springed). You can lift the pins at lower tension but it will not open before you apply the forse required to turn the key.
-If pins are difficult to lift (ie. binding too hard) tension is too high
-If your picks get bent often it is too much tension (release the tension instead of lifting with more force and destroying picks)
-If you have trouble feeling the binding you can try more tension (at least for the moment you're trying to find the binding pin)
-It is definately not constant, especially with security pins binding

I guess the good tension is somewhere between the mininum and maxinum and it is the one that enables you to pick the lock best.

If you find one lock difficult to feel, you might want to try some other lock if it is better for te purpose.
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Re: Beginner tension question

Postby MrAnybody » 16 Jan 2013 15:04

Sounds like your going though a bit of 'keyway chaos'. This is common when you're unsure about what the tip of your pick is doing as you navigate inside a lock.

As zeepia says, the best method to get more of a mental picture of where your pick is within a lock is to gut a cylinder, and replace only 2 pin stacks. One you're popping the lock repeatedly, then move the 2 stacks to different positions and do it all again. Keep that up until all is going well. Then do the same with 3 pin stacks. In this way, you'll get really confident. and you will eliminate the "pure luck" you mention.

Of course, all locks are different, but this progressive approach will help you a lot. Also have a look at digital blues tutorial, as well as some great exercises on the forum.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10677&hilit=Beginner+lock

Also have a read through this (another really great tutorial):
http://theamazingking.com/lock-spp.php
DISCLAIMER: Reader may posit an understanding of what was written, while this may not coincide with the intended meaning of what is read. Use of brain is required. One size fits all, and may contain traces of gibberish
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Re: Beginner tension question

Postby Capt_Tom » 17 Jan 2013 20:56

Visualize the inside of the lock, Chew some gum and don't try too hard. I have had some locks kick my butt. I left them sit for an hour, and had them for lunch!
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Re: Beginner tension question

Postby daniel22747 » 20 Jan 2013 8:49

Some of what may be causing your luck to vary is a security pin. These often require you to set the same pin mutiple times. Look up security pins and reverse torque on youtube for lessons on this.
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Re: Beginner tension question

Postby RivenV » 27 Jan 2013 11:42

Thank you guys for all your help and advice. I've been continuing to read (and reread and reread) a lot of the beginner materials you provided. I've yet to successfully SPP this #3 open, but I have high hopes.
I'm working on taking apart a Kwikset lock so that I can practice with a single pin, two pins, etc. All of the information you guys have posted has been very helpful to me, and, with practice, I'm certain it's only a matter of time. :)
Shiny!
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Re: Beginner tension question

Postby PherricOxide » 28 Jan 2013 14:18

I wouldn't start out with a Master #3, the plugs slosh around so much that I find it's hard to feel what's going on (and the tolerances are so bad that you don't really need to, just poking all the pins with a half diamond will usually open them up even if you aren't getting much feedback). I also found that when I was learning, padlocks in general can be more difficult because the springs in the padlock that make it lock when you push the shackle down without having to manually turn the key again also make it so you need more pressure on the tension wrench, which can both make it harder to feel things and also train yourself in a bad habit (too much tension).

Kwikset or other cheap deadbolt cylinders are definitely the way to go when you're starting out.
Let us not look back in anger or forward in fear, but around in awareness. — James Thurber
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