Question on Dimple Lock

[fgarci03]

Hey!

I have a few questions on Dimple Locks. I've been searching the forum but I haven't found what I want. Hope this isn't a question for the advanced forum since it's a "basic" dimple lock.

I'm talking about a 6pin Teicocil Dimple Lock. By looking at it I can tell it's a very simple one:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jpxb9a087lym7mc/2013-01-24%2001.01.37.jpg

And the key:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4rqicrhbdb4inz/2013-01-24%2000.58.12.jpg

First, One of the keys that came with the lock has a weird pattern on one of the sides. Like it was mistakenly drilled 2 times. It works though. Was it an error in the key making or it has any use? (probably a dumb question)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ayj6lgg04baz0jm/2013-01-24%2000.58.19.jpg

2. I understand the inner working of this lock, I just can't pick it (usualy I use a half diamond and sometimes a hook, slide it in there and rotate since there isn't space over the pins) Am I doing anything wrong or I just need more practice?

3. I'd like to try and make a Bump Key from one of the keys that came with the lock. I suppose I have to drill every dimple on the key very carefully to it's max depth right? I have never made Bump Keys and I don't know if I should modify the key in another way? This question applies not only to Dimple Locks but to Pin Tumbler Locks also. I know that to make a Bump Key I have to file down the key, etc, etc. But is that just it? I see the use of dampeners, or cut other parts of the key so that you don't need to use dampeners. Never really understood that. Now that I have free time I'd like to make a set of Bump Keys for the locks arround the house

Finally, never understood foil impressioning either. The only posts I see arround here are from people who know exactly what it is and ask specific questions I can't even begin to unerstand In what does it consist of? Don't need a complete explanation (but if someone is willing to give it, I gladly accept!), I just want to understand the concept and then work on it for my own if neccesary!

Thank you


Be safe!

[zeepia]

Sorry can´t help with dimple locks but never pick locks in use and specially NEVER bump locks in use... They can damage locks and leave you in trouble.

Impressioning tutorial can be found here

[zeepia]

And after reading it again I realised you wrote about FOILimpressioning...

[fgarci03]

When I said locks arround the house I meant my training locks. Not the ones actualy in use

Thank you for the impressioning link anyway, it always helps!

[capt.dunc]

i've just finishing a homemade pick for one of these this morning from a street sweeper bristle with a view to posting so i guess i'll put it here.

first, when you say 2 side marks i assume you're talking about the indents by the bow

shown on a cheap dimple lock and similar one on a yale euro, these serve no purpose, i can only assume they are part of the manafacture or testing process when the key is being gripped by a machine, on a cheap copy i assume that the chinese have just copied it across when reverse engineering.
second, my pick
measuring the spacing using a lock, note i've just made this for a 5 pin

hopefully you can make out the slight groove on the flag section to aid with pin grip, and behind a tension tool from bristle, you'll need to heat the metal for making the sharp turns.

the two tools in position for picking, and they're a great fit

i've put a half diamond on the other end of the pick, note the slope on the front end of the working face to assist with getting under pins before twisting

and the pick after a little sanding


in use the bent angle of the pick gives a good indicator of how high you've lifted, and the flag end is long enough to reach max lift at about a 45 degree angle, use a light tension and beware of catching the pick tip on a ward and back turning the plug, possibly unsetting pins.
how big should your half diamond be? if your half diamond is the hight of the keyway or less

then you may be able to use it vertically, getting it in front of a pin and sliding it forward allowing the pin to move up the slope, good control with higher tension, but the stem needs to be thin to avoid over setting any low pins at the front, with a slightly larger half diamond you'll be going under and twisting to raise pins, although it's possible to mix the two techniques with the pick off from vertical.

note, because of the tapered front edges and groove on the flag end, this pick is handed and a mirror image one will be needed for locks with the opposite handing.

third, bumping and foil impressioning are not picking and are for the advanced section, but it took me two minutes to find all the info you'd need using google.

keep on trying, and like other locks you could remove a pin stack or 2 and then re add them as you improve.

[capt.dunc]

pics don't be seem to be there so here they are in order:
http://s5.beta.photobucket.com/user/ringling87/media/DSC02470_zpscf696a6a.jpg.html?sort=3&o=144
http://s5.beta.photobucket.com/user/ringling87/media/DSC02463_zps53ff5ee3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=147
http://s5.beta.photobucket.com/user/ringling87/media/DSC02462_zps8df090e7.jpg.html?sort=3&o=148
http://s5.beta.photobucket.com/user/ringling87/media/DSC02464_zps0f4f5556.jpg.html?sort=3&o=146
http://s5.beta.photobucket.com/user/ringling87/media/DSC02471_zps73ad3561.jpg.html?sort=3&o=143
http://s5.beta.photobucket.com/user/ringling87/media/DSC02481_zpsc8981842.jpg.html?sort=3&o=141
http://s5.beta.photobucket.com/user/ringling87/media/DSC02467_zpsa417ee9e.jpg.html?sort=3&o=145

hopefully that's them

[fgarci03]

I was going to post that the pics weren't there


Thank you for the input!

[capt.dunc]

ps smooth the corners of your tension tool to avoid catching the inside of the cylinder which is easier to do with the relatively wide and open keyways

[fgarci03]

One thing, about the first image.. I'm talking about the "double" dimples in the key, shown in my 2nd image. The quality isn't great but you can see the difference between the 2 images. They are the two sides of the same key!

[capt.dunc]

i see what you mean, i hadn't looked at your second key photo, looks like a shadow image of the real cuts, looks like what you'd get if someone cut the key but hadn't lined it up correctly, ie cutting the bitting at possitions 1.4, 2.4, 3.4 etc then having realised their error they've gone back and recut at positions 1, 2, 3 etc.

there's 2 directions you could miss align on, too far forward and too far back, with one your key will hit the back of the lock before the bittings align with the pins and with the other the key will line up before it's fully inserted, not such a problem with a rim cylinder but with a euro you need the tip of the key to engage the cam.

[femurat]

I like your boomerang pick

[fgarci03]

looks like what you'd get if someone cut the key but hadn't lined it up correctly

Yes, that's what I though but I had to be sure


Thank you for the reply, just another thing if it's not asking too much:

I don't really know how to disasseble this lock. I have disassembled and re-pined some old ones I had arround here (just to understand how to do it since I have an Ultimate Challenge Lock wich I re-pin in seconds) but in this kind of lock I can't find a place to start. It seems like I have to break it in order to do it (wich I know it's stupid). But the ones I have disassembled are different. They are like the ones I find on google or youtube. This one has pins on both sides so don't know how to pull the plug off. I have some pin tumblers like this also. In portugal these are the most usual locks and are the easiest to buy in hardware stores.

I'll give you an image:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2h6wbmh2dmc68ir/2013-01-24%2014.02.42.jpg

[capt.dunc]

this tread should tell you everything
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5199

[fgarci03]

Dude!
That's it!

So this kind of lock is called Euro cylinder? When I first read the topic on terminology I didn't realise that it was this kind of lock.

Sorry to ask a question already answered in the forum but I sometimes have some difficulty with some specific terms.

Feeling really dumb


Thank you!

[capt.dunc]

you can't learn without asking questions