Old brass american padlock keycode help

[Rusty_Shackleford]

I have recently attempted to impression and pick this viewtopic.php?t=56303 lock and have failed multiple times. I stumbled upon this site here noticed they have the key cuts for the American Lock padlock that I have with a keycode of "2381" stamped on the padlock bible. If anyone could post the key cut depths, I would greatly appreciate it.
Here is the link from the trial version of the site. http://www.lockcodes.com/demo/demo.cgi? ... S=1&Z=2381

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Anyone??
From what I have seen from various Ebay auctions the keycode stamped on the bible and the keycode on the key are the same. Could anyone look up the keycode 2381? It shows up on demos for keycode software.
-Thanks

[MrWizard]

I checked my HPC code software that code isn't listed. Some American padlocks can be very hard to impression while others seem easy. Thing you know for sure is this padlock is only 5 pin by going to that lock code site so it can't be you are failing by using a 5 pin blank in a 6 pin lock.

On the many times you have tried to impression this lock has any cuts just seem to be marking very obviously much more than the others and just never stops marking no matter how far you have filed down the cut while the other cuts have stopped marking. If so on the deep cut or cuts they may be a 0, 1, or 2 depth cut and you have filed too deep on those. Try leaving those deep cut at 0 depth and try again. If you have a dup key machine on the cuts that have stopped marking you can copy those and leave the deep ones at 0 and try to impression it again with that key. I don't have the actual cuts to that code but I can tell you there are 9 depths 0 being no cut used in American locks using the HPC code card no. 30 that is for that code series.

If you have a dial caliper you can measure the cuts you have made and on the ones that have stopped marking check it against the depths below to see if any of them are at least close so you will know those may be correct. If the deep ones are past the 8the depth you have for sure missed those and need to leave them at 0 depth and try again.

If you can pick the lock open keep the cylinder turned and using a hook pick feel the pins looking for ones that are the high cuts and check the keys you have tried to impression to see which ones you have filed to deep on. Check all of them to see if any cuts you have made look right as to what you are feeling. Getting it picked open and feeling the pattern of the pins is your best bet to know what you need to be filing the cuts to when you impression it.

0. .000
1. .284
2. .268
3. .253
4. .237
5. .221
6. .206
7. .190
8. .175

Good luck let me know if this helps and you finally get it to work.
Richard

[GWiens2001]

Sometimes with padlocks, when impressioning, have had all the pins stop marking without the lock opening. Looking carefully, I frequently see that the shoulder is hitting on the keyway guard (please feel free to correct me with the correct term for that part.). I file down the bottom of the key where it is hitting the guard, leaving the top shoulder intact, and the key will start marking again, usually at the bittings near the tip of the key. Then it will usually work.

Just be careful and keep in mind that the key is now more fragile and can break off easier.

Good luck,

Gordon

[MrWizard]

Gordon

Yes by filing down the bottom shoulder it lets the key rock more while you turn and bind and bump it in the cylinder where as with it hitting the "cylinder retainer" I call it you have limited it to only bumping one way mostly. The cylinder is loose in the lock body which makes it hard to bind and bump with that retainer hitting the key. Filing down the top shoulder too also helps especially with master locks even none rekeyable ones with no retainer in the way it still hits the top of the lock body. Old locksmith trick taught to me by an old locksmith.

Richard

[MrWizard]

Gordon

I want to add a very helpful tip nobody ever mentions that you can do. Why...because they don't about it.

You can pull out on the key once you have some defined cuts filed to obtain marks on the front slop of the cuts. Grumbach made an impressioning tool with a squeeze trigger handle that had a rod sticking out the front. When squeezed the rod would move out and hit the face of the lock pulling the blank outward while you put turning pressure on the cylinder. Makes huge easy to see marks on the front slope of the cuts no rocking the blank required.

This also would make marks on the lock which is not something that is desirable but it works. Was called The Grumbach Impressioning System. I have 2 of these tools. One is the deluxe chrome version not many people where lucky enough to get and the blue anodized one. I used it for a while but found I could do it without the tool leaving no marks on the lock.

I have to add you DO NOT what to use this pulling out method on wafer locks it will bend the disc wafers rendering the lock inoperable and can also distort the cylinder wafer guides. Even if you replaced the wafers the cylinder can be ruined for the most part, sometimes actually breaking off some pieces.

Grumbach warned about this but morons still used that tool on them and complained that tool (not them) had ruined the lock.

So even without the tool DO NOT be pulling outward on the key when impressioning a disc wafer lock!

Thank me very much no charge for this tip.
Richard

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Thanks for the advice on impression. I was not getting very defined marks on the key even though I colored the top with sharpie to aid in seeing the marks. I think part of the issue picking and impressioning is collapsed springs in the lock, when I have lock upside down, the pins will not travel their full extent, also lifting pins when I do not have tension applied there is little to no resistance until I lift them 3/4ths of the way up. This lock has seen lots of use, the top of they keyway is .075" while a new Ilco am3 blank has a key blade thickness of .045", this is very worn. The other reason I wish to get a key cut for this by code is that there is a crack from the face of the plug to the first pin chamber from my previous impressioning attempts, and I do not wish to worsen the fracture in the soft brass. If it wasnt for the collapsed springs and cracks, it would probably have a key by now.

[MrWizard]

If you see a crack on the cylinder it isn't worth the time to continue with it. You can just drop it in the bucket of tried and failed and go get something else to play with.

Only apply enough turning pressure to obtain a mark if it isn't marking well clean it out with contact cleaner to get out all oil, dirt, graphite. Some locks just won't impression and you have to just move on.

If someone has tried to impression it before you got it the pin cells become distorted egg shaped, plugs crack, all kind of thing happen and all you get is frustrated and feel defeated. The more you try the worse it gets. Best to practice impressioning on a newer lock with sharp pin points, that lock is a oldie.

Go get another type and have at it.

Richard