Vehicle locks

[soksavik]

There's a lot of information online about pin tumbler locks, but what about vehicle locks? I understand they're typically wafer locks, but I don't know much more than that. Online resources seem scarce compared to pin tumbler locks.

I recently bought an old Dodge Ram that's obviously been rekeyed at some point -- my key fits the driver door and the ignition, but not the passenger door. I'm thinking about putting in new (matching) locks and taking one of the old ones apart to figure out how they work.

[LockDocWa]

OK. Do you have a specific question we can answer?
Or is this just a statement of fact?
Oh and by the way, photos are really helpful.

[soksavik]

Some sort of document/FAQ describing how they work would be helpful. These are Mopar locks in my case, but I'm not expecting anything brand-specific. I'd like to know if they can be rekeyed, I imagine that's a bit harder with wafer locks than with pin tumblers (can I buy a set of replacement wafers that would match my bitting?) Beyond that, I suppose my post was just a general request for help trying to find more information about these locks.

I haven't taken the lock cylinders out of the Dodge yet (I'd have to have something to replace them with before I do that), but I'll be happy to post pictures once I do.

[Squelchtone]

Hi,

The main purpose of this forum is for hobby lock pickers, and is not really meant for a free "ask a locksmith" consultation site. That said, we've had a lot of recent requests from the public with lock questions or 'help me fix this or that" type of questions, and we are looking into having a "questions from the public" or "ask a locksmith" sub forum in the near future, but we do not have an area for that right now, so you will not find a FAQ or Document on that subject matter here, it's honestly not what we usually talk about here.

Also, any auto lock discussion is usually reserved for the Advanced area, because a lot of the talk focuses on locksmiths getting into cars using special tools and methods, and it's not something we feel comfortable having out in the public. Rekeying a car wafer lock obviously represents no danger to anyone, so I'm ok talking about it, but as you noticed you're not gonna find a lot of info here for that unless another member can answer your question. We do have a couple auto experienced locksmiths here, but you may get better replies at your local locksmith shop or car dealer.

Thanks,
Squelchtone

[2octops]

Some sort of document/FAQ describing how they work would be helpful. These are Mopar locks in my case, but I'm not expecting anything brand-specific. I'd like to know if they can be rekeyed, I imagine that's a bit harder with wafer locks than with pin tumblers (can I buy a set of replacement wafers that would match my bitting?) Beyond that, I suppose my post was just a general request for help trying to find more information about these locks.

I haven't taken the lock cylinders out of the Dodge yet (I'd have to have something to replace them with before I do that), but I'll be happy to post pictures once I do.

Yes they can be easily rekeyed. Actually it's much easier to rekey wafer locks than pin tumbler locks.

You can not just buy 1 wafer, normally you either have to buy a pack of 100 or an entire service kit for the code series that you are working with.

Packs of wafers range from $10-$25 each. You would have to buy a pack of each depth individually. The ignition uses different wafers than doors on most vehicles. So, if there are 4 depths, you would have to buy 8 packs of wafers from $10-$25 each. Depending on the vehicle you might also have to purchase a box of face caps for the cylinders if yours are not reusable. They are typically close to the same price as the wafers but you purchase them in boxes of 10 if they are available. Not all are available.

The good news is you can purchase a service kit for between $120-$250 that includes all of the wafers, springs, shutters and some face caps. If you're lucky it might include the correct face cap for your vehicle. Did I mention that not all are available?

There are tools available to remove and reinstall facecaps without damaging them. They run about $200.

You could always buy a new set of locks but you would have to buy a pair for the doors and a new ignition and they would not be keyed the same. You could also visit your friendly, local locksmith and have them rekey the locks for you. Now that you know what the parts cost, don't be shocked when they give you a price. We generally charge $35-$75 PER CYLINDER to rekey them if you bring the cylinder into the shop. Labor for removal and installation is extra.

[ARF-GEF]

I think you are probably better off if you try a locksmith. Be sure to check more than one for price quotes, there are some sharks out there, but more are honest.
It's not just the cost, you can screw it up. At least if you are looking for FAQ-s you might nor be on the level who can change them nicely and without damage (to the painting for example).
So give the local locksmiths a call maybe they give you a better deal than you thought.

BTW I think there is a quite a lot of infos out there on wafer locks. Not as much as pin tumblers maybe, but if all you want is a general understanding you could have another go at google

[Bob Jim Bob]

ultimately I think you're going to find that it's not worth the price and you should just live with the truck the way it is. alternatively you could solve your problem by getting a used lock and key from eBay or a junkyard and replacing the entire unit yourself

[soksavik]

I could certainly live with it. I can also get a matching set of replacement locks (two doors plus cylinder) for less than all the tools I need to rekey it. A locksmith can also rekey it for me for less ($50-$75-ish for both of those options.)

That said, I'm not trying to treat lockpicking101 like a generic consumer-oriented "ask a locksmith" site. I do have a genuine interest in the topic, and I was seeing the keyless passenger door lock as an opportunity to get a wafer lock to play around with. Figured I should replace it first, so I could take it out of the door, disassemble it, not worry about being unable to REASSEMBLE it (I may get mocked for it here, but I've had that problem with pin tumblers in the past, breaking springs trying to replace pin stacks and such.) After all, a door with NO lock is generally undesirable.

That said, it seems the message here is to leave vehicle locks to the pros and go back to pin tumblers, so that's what I'll do. I picked up a cheap deadbolt at Ace Hardware today that claims to be "pick and bump resistant" but looks like a Kwikset clone. So that'll give me something to play for that may be more suitable. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[ARF-GEF]

That said, I'm not trying to treat lockpicking101 like a generic consumer-oriented "ask a locksmith" site.

Hey man, no worries, if we feel abused we won't help:). So ask, you can't really lose too much.

(I may get mocked for it here, but I've had that problem with pin tumblers in the past, breaking springs trying to replace pin stacks and such.

I don't think anyone will mock you here. We all started it somewhere, I for one am still at the beginning of the learning curve. Everyone makes mistakes and the mods will probably stop people from being a**holes and making fun of people who simply make mistakes anyone could have made as a beginner. As I see it this is a pretty good community so you really should have no fear.

[ARF-GEF]

Oh and I almost forgot:

Sorry if I offended anyone.

I don't think you offended anyone. At least I haven't found anything offensive on my part. Maybe(/probably?) it wasn't aimed at me .
I didn't really meant that you should stop with vehicle locks, I think it's important to have fun with the stuff you are interested in. I'm really interested in high security lock so I spend a lot of time researching them even though they are above my head. The fun parts keep us all motivated.
It's just that probably its best to start with the simplest pin tumblers and work your way up. And you really shouldn't "play" with locks in use especially on your car. I think all that we meant, with the best of intents and without any trace of offense taken, that you should know your stuff before you actually try your skills on locks in use.

[2octops]

I know my reply was kind of vague so please don't take it the wrong way.

I encourage everyone to learn as much as they can about things that they are interested in. Take them apart, see what makes them work and put them back together. It's fun, challenging and for some of us it's profitable.

All locks work on a very basic principal. They have something blocking something else to keep it from moving. The key is used to move something into the correct position for something else to move. Keep that in mind and you can work with any lock. Some just have different parts that must be moved a different way for something different to be able to move.

Most automotive locks (we still don't know exactly what you have but most Chrysler products are basically the same principal for the past 20 years) are basic wafer locks. With the correct key, the wafers will move and line on with the shear line so that the plug can rotate. If a cut on the key is incorrect, a wafer will not line up with the shear line and block the plug from rotating.

Not meaning to be vague still, but most discussion on automotive locks is kept in the advanced sections of this site.

If you don't want to take yours apart before playing with some, go to your local junkyard and see if they have any similar to yours and take them apart to play with. You might be able to rearrange the wafers in yours to match your existing key.