basics on electronic locks

[Sly_cooper]

Electronic locks may seem complicated but are quite simple if you take a step back to understand the systems behind them. No mater how complicated the system might seem there are a few basic individual parts that allow electronic locks to function in the way they are intended,

Fist there is input device this could be anything from fingerprint scanner, magnetic strip reader, RFID scanner, optical scanner, key pad, rbg pad, etc..

Next is the processor witch takes the input and matches it to a data base that contains the information that if the input matches will un lock the door this could be self contained as in low security house locks or directly to a core security office located either on premiss or other office, this will then tell the lock to open.

Last is the actual lock witch is in one way or another directly connected to a motor either a servo, stepper or dc motor. On high security electronic locks as seen in high security safe, panic rooms, bank vaults, or even bunkers the lock may be controlled by pneumatic or hydraulic linear actuators. They also have one more key system the power source either it will be either an internal or external source.

Just a basic introduction to these systems if you have any questions or input both are greatly apreciated.

[fgarci03]

Hi Sly_cooper.

Tell me one thing. When you "target" an electric lock (a basic one, like for a simple door or so), is it usual to attack the vulnerabilities in the electric or mechanic system?


I don't know any specific electronic locks, so when I have a glance at one I can only think in an X-Ray to open it!

But it must be somewhat pickable right?

[ARF-GEF]

I'm not sure about high class electronic locks, but in case of most cheap electronic lock you attack the mechanic. Many cheap chinese safes can be opened surprisingly easily with simple mechanical impact(s). In many cases you can bypass the key generator (keypad, card reader, fingerprint reader) and the processor and directly manipulate the electric motor.
Shoulder surfing and similar methods are also quite widespread.
Even high-end electronic locks can have fatal mechanical weak points. Assa-abloy's CLIQ for example took quite a bit of flak. The famous Marc Weber Tobias has demonstrated the weakness in many videos. I don't think I'm supposed to discuss it here, but if you use google you should find the basics yourself.

[lockcat]

I don't think that companies would buy the cliq if it wasn't fot the auditrail feature. It's not only about security, it's also about knowing if your employees are trying to open the door at 2 AM...

[ARF-GEF]

Well partly true, but Marc Weber's method made a fool of the auditing process too. I think some companies do think the added security is important too.

[lockcat]

True if you get around the electronics, there's no audit... I'm just saying that cliq locks are often used to to audit the people that have the key and not always for security.
But still, i'v seen a smartdisc that took a beeting cos someone didn't want to get loged at unathorised times...

[fgarci03]

Many cheap chinese safes can be opened surprisingly easily with simple mechanical impact(s)

Yes, I have a small safe (not even chinese, it's a spanish brand called BTV) and it's one of the ways you can bypass it.
But I mean..

Suppose this scenario, a door in wich we have no access to the lock itself (nor the mechanics of it) but just to the electronic input. And that input is just a numeric keypad.

Is it considered unpickable? (When I say unpickable I'm not just talking about actualy picking, I'm gathering all forms of non destructive entry such as shiming, etc).
The only way I see to open the lock is to know the actual combination.
Or maybe take the keypad apart and access the electronics behind it to bypass the combination input.

I'm not looking for actual methods, I'm just trying to understand the concept behind picking an electronic lock when there is no access to the mechanics of it.

Thank you!

[Squelchtone]

Gentlemen,

This thread is about 5 seconds from being locked and moved to Advanced. A little too much talk of bypassing keypads and going right after the electronic motors..

Does anyone read the rules here?

Squelchtone

[fgarci03]

DANG! Sorry squelchtone!

I was talking (and asking) about a concept and not actual methods. I tried to not go through specific stuff. But I suppose it's going too far by now.

I did read the rules but just got carried away. Not intentional!

Thank you!

[ARF-GEF]

Sorry squelchtone, and thank you for the warning.
I too have read the rules. I did try to be vague and obscure, obviously not well enough.

Suppose this scenario, a door in which we have no access to the lock itself (nor the mechanics of it) but just to the electronic input. And that input is just a numeric keypad.

With squelchtone's warning in mind all I would say is that I think a cleverly designed,well-made and correctly used electronic lock can be considered unpickable. I'm sure anything which is made by humans can be destroyed by humans but what I mean here is covert entry. (At least as close to it as it gets.)As long as there is no feedback or clue whatsoever only the brute force method remains. Of course that doesn't defend against the code being written on a piece of paper and hidden in a "no-way-they-can-find-this" place right next to the safe.

Kaba Mas - X-09 is considered (as far as I know) unpickable as of now. In the general lock area I think the EVVA MCS is unpickable too.
But that's just my opinion and I must say that I'm no expert on safes and safe locks.

(I hope I did not post anything against the rules here.)

[ARF-GEF]

I'm not sure if shimming (per se) is at all applicable with electronic locks.
(Saying sth is not applicable is allowed, right?)
But I think I will exit this discussion now, I think I'm threading on thin ice.

[fgarci03]

Yes maybe we should do that


Thank you for the information!

[lockr]

I missed out on the start of this conversation (been busy with a new baby, so haven't been around as much recently)
But if this topic gets revived on the advanced forums, i'd like to join in. If I get accepted to the advanced forums at some point, that is =)

[ARF-GEF]

Well I'm not an advanced member either, nor is fgarci03 or slycooper so I'm not sure if it will or how it will proceed in the advanced forum .
But I agree it would be very interesting and educational to hear the more experienced people's view on this.

[fgarci03]

Yes, maybe at some point we will be able to make that happen