Mul-T-Lock ID please!

[fgarci03]

Hey

Today I got this Mul-T-Lock:


I did pick it in a couple of minutes (ok, at first I didn't manage to do it so I laid it down for a while and then picked it twice in under 2 minutes each time), what made me think. What model is this lock exactly?
It says on the box "Secured by 7x7" but for what I've seen, it had to have 7 chambers (pin chambers?). But it only has 6 pins. The key has 7 dimples though. I wonder if I just got lucky or this is just a fancy dimple with a couple of spools (it seemed to have spools but they where so easy to overcome I don't really know what to think...).

Does anyone ever seen this lock?

Thank you!

[GWiens2001]

A lot of the MTL locks come with serrated driver pins. That may be what you felt. Sure you already know this, but the 7x7 is not a pin in pin system, which helps a lot. One of the other MTL locks also is not PIP, the Integrator, I think it is called.

Gordon

[fgarci03]

A lot of the MTL locks come with serrated driver pins. That may be what you felt.

Hum, I've never picked locks with serrated pins so I don't know how they feel. In this one I felt that false rotating of the plug and then stopping. And when I push the pin deeper the plug rotates just a little bit back and then I feel it set. Can't tell the difference between a serrated and spool pin yet

Sure you already know this, but the 7x7 is not a pin in pin system, which helps a lot. One of the other MTL locks also is not PIP, the Integrator, I think it is called.

No ideia what you mean with Pin In Pin system...


Thank you!

[fgarci03]

Oh, I see now. The Pin Within a Pin system!

Yes, this isn't one of those. So no high security here. I just thought it would be a lot difficult to pick.
But I still find it strange that it only has 6 pins. When I search 7x7 I find locks with 7 pins... And the key having 7 dimples blows my mind

What do you tink about that?

[GWiens2001]

I think somebody goofed making that lock, unless the last pin is the equivalent of a 9 cut. I don't know the cut depths on MTL. Do you feel an empty hole with your pick inside the plug?

Your description of the feedback sounds like a spool pin. Serrated pins, at least the ones I have worked with feel similar to a set, but when lifted above the serration, it clicks again at the next serration, and so forth until you get past the driver pin to the shear line. Even more evil until you get used to the serrated driver pins are the serrated key pins that some locks (most notably the American brand padlocks) use. If you push past the shear line thinking it is another serration, you get more clicks as you encounter more serrations on the key pin. As you are learning, the fun never seems to end!

If you have not picked an American padlock with serrated pins, PM me, and we will work a trade, as I have plenty.

Gordon

[fgarci03]

Hum, I don't think there is an empty hole. I mean, I got my pick stuck back there 3 times (and it was HELL to get it out) but I don't think it was in a "pin hole". Here's a pic of the configuration:


And the key aligned with the lock:


If you have noticed, the right side of the lock has a small dot that looks like a pin chamber (and it aligns exactly with the 7th dimple on the key) but in the keyway there is no pin that matches that dot.
It is only on one of the sides of the lock and I think it's like a screw that attaches that part of the lock. If you notice, the lock looks cutted in one side, I was told it's a feature to prevent someone to break the lock with a pliers and then manipulate the bolt directly.
This way, if they are able to break it, the lock "is prepared for it" and doesn't allow for that manipulation. Don't really know how it works though.

I think somebody goofed making that lock

What do you mean? Was I cheated?

[GWiens2001]

That first dot looks like a hardened steel anti-drill pin to me. Funny that it lines up with the first dimple. Never had a 7x7, so I can't say for sure.

It is the slot cut most of the way through the lock cylinder that is the snap protection. Put in a screw and a slide hammer, and the lock will break off at that point, allowing your place to still have some measure of protection.

Gordon

[fgarci03]

Thank you for explaining that to me!

I'm still %$(%"$&(#&" off with this lock. First because I can't understand why I find 7x7's online to be different than this, and that thing about the key,
And second because I thought it would be a lot harder to pick.

Oh well, at least I learn a bit with every lock. I'd like to gut it but I'm afraid not being able to assemble it again and destroy the lock

[MacGyver101]

I can't understand why I find 7x7's online to be different than this, and that thing about the key . . .

It looks like it's missing the 7th pin chamber simply because of its length: they likely had to drop the 7th pin chamber simply because they only had 31mm/side to work with? (You see the same thing in most cylinders: you can't order a 1" Medeco mortice cylinder with 6 pins, for example, as there simply isn't room for the 6th pin chamber.) It looks like they just don't bother milling 6-pin keys: the logistics of keeping a separate supply of them, just for the short cylinders, probably isn't worth the minor tooling savings.

[fgarci03]

So there are several models of the same lock?

Same technology, different sizes and number of pins?




Maybe I wasn't cheated after all

[ARF-GEF]

I have seen a few 7x7s and they all have 7 pins. I can imagine, that they have a special "shortened" edition for special uses like in thin glass doors.
I've disassembled one and they are not particularly complicated to assemble. After you had fun I don't think you should hold back from disassembly:)
So yes, basically the same /similar technology but with different length.
I agree with Gordon, I don't think that first thingy is a pin either, it's an anti drill insert. And most anti drill inserts run all the way, so there's probably not enough space for a pin there.

Also the 7-holed key has a big advantage: this customer won't start thinking about how many pins this lock has and won't start asking questions...
Keso for example does make some remarkably short cylinders with special mechanisms. Could you measure the whole cylinder? If it's at least 6 cm long that should answer this question.
I don't think you were cheated, you should treasure this special lock while all the others have boring 7 pinned 7x7-s

You could also check how far does the key go into the lock. At leas you will see which is a the useless dimple, the first or the last.

[ARF-GEF]

Also: how come you have 5 differently coloured keys for it? I've seen the colour coded construction key systems of MulTlock, but they look differently and I'm yet to encounter a 5 levelled construction key system.
Or was this lock part of a master key system?
The box only mentions 3 keys?
Aaand I've just realised the box shows that the cylinder is 31/31. So much for my "extra-short special edition" theory.

[fgarci03]

I don't think you were cheated, you should treasure this special lock while all the others have boring 7 pinned 7x7-s

Hehe, but I would gladly have a go on a 7pin!

You could also check how far does the key go into the lock. At leas you will see which is a the useless dimple, the first or the last.

The useless one it the one closest to the bow.

how come you have 5 differently coloured keys for it?

It's to distinguish the keys. Blue for John, Red for Sue, Orange for Mike, etc. (At least thats what I've been told. I don't think it's part of a master key)

The box only mentions 3 keys?

Funny, I didn't notice it! But the 5 keys work!

I'll give it a go in disassembling!

Thank you for the help!

[ARF-GEF]

But if all the keys are the same what does it matter which one belongs to who?
Anyway they look fancy, and if I get it right that's the aim. I was just curious whether there is something more to it

[mhole]

As others have noted, the first pin is a hardened anti drill feature. The lock has 6 chambers due to it's length, I'd guess 30/30. Mul-T-Lock still mill the key with all the cuts, so it can be used in a 7 pin cylinder too, in master or suited systems. This works as the keys are tip stopped, with no shoulder controlling how fat they go into the lock, so in a short cylinder you just engage one less pin stack. The specific cylinder type you have is a Garrison/7x7 breaksecure euro cylinder.