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Having issues with first ever lock :s

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby uperkurk » 23 Feb 2013 12:40

I'm trying to pick this lock from Squire

Image

It is only 4 pins but the problem I have is I can't tell when a pin is set or not. When I watch videos on youtube you can distinctly hear a loud click like the pin is locking into position. Sometimes when I insert the pick I can feel the pins, then sometimes I can't. Been trying for 20mins but I just don't know if and when a pin has set.
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby IndigoChild » 23 Feb 2013 14:34

Have you looked at security pins at all? What your experiencing is likely false sets from mushroom, spool and barrel pins. some cases even use serrated pins but these are a bit less common. Here is a good read on SPP which goes into detail about security pins. http://www.theamazingking.com/lock-spp.php
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby uperkurk » 23 Feb 2013 15:29

The lock only cost me £10 so I doubt it's anything amazing. I even went at it with a rake for a couple of mins and nothing... when I release the tension I hear all the pins drop, at least 3 of them drop but still the lock just won't open
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby uperkurk » 23 Feb 2013 21:17

After trying for hours to pick this lock I have determinded that it is unpickable. I have tried all kinds of tension force, raking an spp still no joy. I release the tension and I have hear the pins dropping. The problem I think I'm having is their are 2 pins inside which just do not bind. So you have to lift them and some how keep them both at the sheer line at the same time which is impossible.

Some of the binds bind and I hear the click, but the lock just doesn't turn and I think it's because 2 of the pins just refuse to bind no matter how much tension I apply.
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby Altashot » 23 Feb 2013 22:29

I don't think it's unpickable. :lol: It's only 4 pins.
Are you new at this? All you need is more practice.
Practice, practice, practice. You need to get the hang of it, learn to understand what the lock is telling you. You have to get the feel of it and develop your hand to feel the lock. Try to visualize what is going on in there. Close your eyes and imagine that YOU are the pick and are lifting the pins with your nose, really put yourself in there and "see" what is happening.
Keep trying, you'll get it.

M.
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby LockDocWa » 23 Feb 2013 22:40

That 10 pound lock is about a $15.00 dollar lock. (US)
Try purchasing a 5 pound lock.
Work your way up from there.
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby phrygianradar » 24 Feb 2013 2:00

When I was first starting out I found myself getting really frustrated with cheap (5 dollar plastic covered little things) four pin Master locks! Like the others said already, practice is key (pun intended!) Some of the cheap locks have spooled driver pins and such. Good luck and keep at it, you will get it eventually!
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby ARF-GEF » 24 Feb 2013 5:28

I1ve found the very basic cylinder locks tend to be less secure (less chance of security pins, roomier keyway) than padlocks. Maybe you should try the cheapest cylinder lock you can find to A. practice and B. for the sense of achievement!:)
With the prices here I can easily imagine that a 10 pounds padlock has a spooled pin or two.

I agree with everybody who said that practice is important. This whole thing is about practice and patience. ( I also agree that that lock is not unpickable :) .)

I think it's very much like writing. Not only because of the fine movements required but also because when you first start writing, your fine-motor skills are not refined yet, so you write very primitively. You start out with capitals only then move on to printed letters and after that you master the beautiful cursive. With time it becomes almost automatic.
Don't think it's so quick and easy, when learning anything, especially so nuanced and carefully coordinated moves as lockpicking there are significant changes in the build of your brain. And that takes time, for some more for some less. But patience is always important:)

Anyway my old and successful method when I get stuck with a supposedly easy lock: let it rest for a week or two, I practice with other locks and after the frustration is gone I start over again.
If that still leads to no success or I get extraordinarily annoyed with a lock I simply take it apart and see what the problem was. That's the best way to learn you mistakes. You can see with what exactly do you have the problem and find out and visualise a solution for it. After that, if you were careful you can reassemble the lock and try again.

Good luck with it!:)
To infinity... and beyond!
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby MrAnybody » 24 Feb 2013 6:13

uperkurk wrote:After trying for hours to pick this lock I have determinded that it is unpickable. I have tried all kinds of tension force, raking an spp still no joy. I release the tension and I have hear the pins dropping. The problem I think I'm having is their are 2 pins inside which just do not bind. So you have to lift them and some how keep them both at the sheer line at the same time which is impossible.

Some of the binds bind and I hear the click, but the lock just doesn't turn and I think it's because 2 of the pins just refuse to bind no matter how much tension I apply.


The lock you have is a Squire Stronghold 35, 37 or 39 depending on the size. I can't tell from your pic, but it doesn't matter. The money spend on this padlock is for a durable outside lock that can stand some corrosion.

There are no security pins in them. Squire put them in their 6 pins, but not in their 4 pins. This lock is pickable, but as ARF-GEF has well said perhaps this one has just got you on a bad day, or your technique needs refining. I also throw a lock in the naughty box if it's twisting my melon. I'll get the sucka in the end. Move to a different lock for awhile.

As well as all the completely valid advice the guys above me have given, there's 2 things not mentioned, and the main one is over-lifting. I thought this could be a possibility since you mention that you can hear the pins re-setting when you take the tension off. When I get frustrated with a lock, this is common to me. Try not to be so heavy with your pushing the pins, but rather let off a little on the tension to help you move them.

In addition, the pin you set before you have 2 remaining that won't set is your problem. It's either not set correctly or over-set.

Be gentle with it. Take your tension wrench out, and feel how strong the springs are as you push down with your pick. Then with a little tension on, feel them out individually and see which one puts up more resistance to your push. Note him, and push gently until it moves, keep going until you feel movement/click in the pick and/or tension wrench. I think you're fully up to speed on this, but I find it useful to remind myself sometimes.

By the way, this won't shim as it's ball locking.

Keep trying, dude. Gentle practice practice, practice. Locks are hard as nail, but they don't require a huge force to pick them. They require gentle, firm awareness from the side of the picker.

Hope this helps. Good luck.
DISCLAIMER: Reader may posit an understanding of what was written, while this may not coincide with the intended meaning of what is read. Use of brain is required. One size fits all, and may contain traces of gibberish
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby uperkurk » 24 Feb 2013 16:25

The lock is a no.39. Thanks for your advice and tips, I have tried everything and 2 days later I still can not open it. I've watched every youtube video to do with lock picking and I've tried every technique. I'm telling you this lock simply can't be picked. Not because it was designed this way but something is wrong with the lock.

I apply tension, pin number one is the most binding, so I set that, then I check the others, all of them just spring right back up, no binding going on at all. I apply some more tension to see if I can find a binding pin. If I apply anymore tension I will snap my tension wrench.

The point I'm making is only 1 of the pins in the plug actually binds. When I ram a rake in there and then release the tension I have a few pins drop but it still feels like there are 2 pins inside that can not be set obove the sheer line because there is no binding on them.
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby Altashot » 24 Feb 2013 16:47

Well I guess you have no other choices but to send it to me.
I'll pick it, take it apart, repair it, then I'll pick it again to assure that it is not unpickable and send it back to you locked for you to pick. Deal?

M.
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby uperkurk » 24 Feb 2013 17:10

I'm not gunna send a padlock half way across the world. The lock can't be picked, simple. I assure you I'm not that much a noob to not be able to pick a lock after 2 days of trying.
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby MBI » 24 Feb 2013 17:52

I am Jack's nearly silent mirth.
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby averagejoe » 24 Feb 2013 17:57

MBI wrote:I am Jack's nearly silent mirth.


Should we tell him about the secret lock sauce? I know that stuff pops open almost any lock.
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Re: Having issues with first ever lock :s

Postby IndigoChild » 24 Feb 2013 18:03

WD-40!!!!

...

...

I only kid.

If some of the pins feel like they just cant be picked and keep coming down its likely a mushroom pin. Some pins not even a seasoned newbie can pick even after 2 days. A team of swedish lockpicks took a stab at medeco when it first showed up and it took them a solid 4 hours to pick it. Imagine if you tried picking it. It might take you a year of solid picking to finally get it open. All I am saying is you dont need to get snippy.
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